Sound fail....

[Anonymous067]

YouTube - Sugarland - Something More (GRAMMYs on CBS)

Feedback..:25, :39

Mics not turned on in the recording feeds...:04

Popping?:05, :16, :39

Either the coms patched to the recording, or an offstage microphone didn't' get muted while somebody was talking on coms. :25, :39

 

[CrazyTechie]

That's funny. But everyone has bad days where things just don't go as planned and things go wrong.

 

[smgray]

"Are we ok with her mic?"

Yes, but we can hear yours... Haha.

 

[Stookeybrd]

Yeah, that was rough.

The wrong mic went out on stage. Whenever the man in the black cowboy hat sings into his mic, nada. If I were in that position I would have thrown the fader to make sure he was actually singing and then called backstage saying that we didn't have a mic. Being right next to the 'correct mic' the ASM is heard confirming that the lead singer can still be heard.

I love show business.

 

[mstaylor]

At least you know they aren't lip syncing.

 

[DrPinto]

IMHO, sound techs are using way too many wireless mics in places where wired mics would work just fine. Mr Black Cowboy Hat could have easily used a wired mic. That would have caused a little less confusion.

I did lights for a talent show where the sound person used 4 or 5 wireless mics, even though the performers on stage were standing about 4 feet from mic jacks that were built into the stage! The sound was terrible. Half the time the wrong mic was on, and some of the mics died because sound dude used old batteries. The person running the mixer got totally lost. It was sad.

When I do a show, I use as many wired mics as I can. I only go wireless when I have to. Just because you have lots of wireless mics doesn't mean you have to use them.

 

[bishopthomas]

No offense, but these awards shows and the like are very different from the talent show you were involved in. I am a huge advocator of "why use a wireless mic when a wired one will do just fine," but for these types of turnarounds and set changes wireless makes the show (although maybe not preproduction) go smoother. I didn't watch the video, but from the comments it sounds like operator error rather than RF difficulties.

 

[museav]

IMHO, sound techs are using way too many wireless mics in places where wired mics would work just fine.

I agree that wireless mics are used more than they need to or probably should be, but I wouldn't blame the sound techs as that is rarely their decision. The problem I see more often is others making the decision to use wireless regardless of whether a wired mic or even no microphone might be the preferred option from an audio and acoustical perspective.

 

[Anonymous067]

I agree that wired should be considered over wireless, but when they have two stages going, and they have 3 minutes to switch acts while the other stage is live, I would probably want the least amount of cables! And one way or another, a mic is a mic, in the eyes of the console. The sound board operator being lost has nothing to do with wired vs wireless.

EDIT: Also, I think every show is different, and you have to use the right gear for the job. Wireless was selected on this show, probably for good reason. Now, wireless on an orchestra pit for a non-traveling show is a waste of money. See my point?

Re: Using old batteries. Umm...no offense, but using old batteries is your own problem.

 

[Stookeybrd]

When I do a show, I use as many wired mics as I can. I only go wireless when I have to. Just because you have lots of wireless mics doesn't mean you have to use them.

Funny, in my world it is the exact opposite. For an event of that size and speed, wireless is almost always easier in every situation. Almost. Plus there is no way the broadcast crew would let the emcee's single mic cable drag across stage as they fill between acts. Wireless looks prettier, and that's what award shows are all about.

I agree that wired should be considered over wireless, but when they have two stages going, and they have 3 minutes to switch acts while the other stage is live, I would probably want the least amount of cables!

The process actually isn't as difficult as it seems. Once you run the first cable, adding 1 to 100 more isn't any different. It takes plenty of preparation and planning but during the moment, no biggie. Mult and snakes tails are left with the instruments on their rolling platform and two connections will be made within seconds on the platform rolling onto location, power and signal. Rarely will there be a single cable for anything. Usually, a lightning fast mic check is done with monitor world and then a simple yes/no line check is done at FOH. The whole process takes 90 seconds maximum with a good crew and great communication.

 

[NUSound]

This is a crew fail, not a wireless fail. Most of the people on this board have never been involved with a broadcast/fast change situation like this and I'll tell you from experience, cables are a big no-no. Notice how all the guitars/monitors are wireless? Running two cables may seem really simple, but when you have less than 200 seconds in between commercials and 10+ acts in a 90 minute show, they can become a nightmare. Not to mention the fact that the producer would never go for a cabled approach.

The way it was supposed to work:

Band walks out on wireless.
One tech walk out with wireless mic on stands.
Sets mic in place.
Lead singer walks out holding wireless.
Done.

 

[mstaylor]

I understand how easy it is to preset the wrong wireless, how does it never get figured out?

 

[jstroming]

All of the awards shows with live performances have awful audio. The Tony Awards for the last 2 years have been plagued with ridiculous wireless problems.

Use wireless if it's easier, but not at the expense of making the show look thrown together.

 

[jstroming]

Not to mention the fact that the producer would never go for a cabled approach.

If I were the Producer of that show and looked like an idiot after insisting on wireless, you bet your *** those mics would be wired next time.

For that big of a show, I would make sure that audio company wasn't used again either.

 

[museav]

There are times that wireless is the best solution but perhaps partially due to what they see being used in elaborate productions I think that many educational theater, community theatre, etc. too often use wireless microphones simply because it is easier for someone and not because it is the best solution. A good example was the situation asome who played in a jazz group performing at a local arts center related to me. The group performing asked for something like four mics on stands at fixed locations for solos and intros. This is an extremely nice facility with all sorts of capabilities and high end equipment, as well as very good acoustics for such an event, but instead of using any of the very nice wired microphones they had the facility sound tech used wireless handhelds on stands, stands that were literally sitting on top of floor boxes containing multiple microphone connections. Yet I'll bet that same facility complained when they had to swap out some wireless systems in the 700MHz range because they always "had to have" them.

 

[Anonymous067]

If I were the Producer of that show and looked like an idiot after insisting on wireless, you bet your *** those mics would be wired next time.

For that big of a show, I would make sure that audio company wasn't used again either.

I think the blame falls on the backstage hands, not on the sound engineers.

 

[NUSound]

If I were the Producer of that show and looked like an idiot after insisting on wireless, you bet your *** those mics would be wired next time.

For that big of a show, I would make sure that audio company wasn't used again either.

When you have 10-15+ acts, that would mean 10-15+ cables... you're going to say it's easier to match up those cables than handing someone a mic that should be labeled? At the end of the day, wireless is the right tool for shows involving changes like this. Keep in mind that aesthtics are also really important (not to me or you, but to some people that sort of thin actually matters), and having two-dozen cables gaffed in place looks tacky.

Also, most of these shows have a ton of help that has never worked together before, union hands that are *supposed* to be able to do their one job well. I've done shows where I'm responsible just for patching the 12 drum inputs. That's it. Another where I was in charge of the frontline wedges. That's it. You have 90 seconds and one job: just get it done... and do your best not to get in the way of the other 12 guys on stage with you.

I think the blame falls on the backstage hands, not on the sound engineers.

Precisely.

 

[Anonymous067]

When you have 10-15+ acts, that would mean 10-15+ cables... you're going to say it's easier to match up those cables than handing someone a mic that should be labeled? At the end of the day, wireless is the right tool for shows involving changes like this. Keep in mind that aesthtics are also really important (not to me or you, but to some people that sort of thin actually matters), and having two-dozen cables gaffed in place looks tacky.

Also, most of these shows have a ton of help that has never worked together before, union hands that are *supposed* to be able to do their one job well. I've done shows where I'm responsible just for patching the 12 drum inputs. That's it. Another where I was in charge of the frontline wedges. That's it. You have 90 seconds and one job: just get it done... and do your best not to get in the way of the other 12 guys on stage with you.




Precisely.

It actually, in theory, sounds kinda cool. Curtain drops, 12 people rush on stage, do their ONE thing, and leave. As long as you don't have people who are clueless out there (but you mentioned union people...which would hopefully solve this problem).

 

[jstroming]

Obviously determining who's at fault is the key thing in how you would proceed fixing the problem in the future. We have no idea who was at fault because we weren't there. It seems like ALOT of things went wrong in that video.

The bottom line for me, again based on my prior post about awards show audio lacking in general, is that there really is no reason for these shows to sound like crap. If it's a frequency/interference issue, use wired. If it's an engineer issue, get a new engineer or company.

Can somebody tell me what is up with these awards shows? Are the companies hired not adequate to meet the needs of the show? Is getting good sounding audio harder than good quality picture or lighting? Seriously I'd love to know the reason, and I don't.

I would venture to say The Grammys or The Tonys would rather rent RCMH or wherever for another day of tech rehearsals than be embarrassed by terrible audio. It seems like every review of these shows I've read makes some mention of something like "Aside from obvious Audio issues"....What gives?

 

[NUSound]

Until people stop watching them because of audio issues, nothing is guaranteed to change. (The beauty of capitalism.) A day of tech rehearsals would pretty much fix any potential problem, but that would not only involve paying the crew for an extra day, you'd need the 'talent' there. Since they only show up for the publicity getting the acts in a day early would be tough (and really, really, expensive). At this level of the game, rehearsal or not, mistakes should NOT be made, but it seems that they do quite often.

One other thing to consider in this particular case: as uncluttered as the stage is, backstage is an absolute nightmare. There are probably a dozen different managers, a host of co-producers, the vid guys, the light guys, the people with backstage passes. The video crew doesn't care if they get in the way of the light crew, the light crew doesn't care if they move some of the audio crews stuff. If you think 'combat audio' is a battle, these things can turn into atomic warfare.