Conventional Fixtures Source 4 Mini LED

Marknak357

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Jun 9, 2013
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San Francisco Bay Area
So just wondering.... Can I remove the transformer from a Source 4 Mini LED, and wire it to a 12 volt dimming system? I have a bunch of LED strips being powered by cheap LED dimmer modules. These put out 12 volts and I was wondering if the little black box transformer does some ETC magic to alter the timing or some other spell. It would sure make my life easier if I can stick to 12 volt dimming. Not insurmountable but lots less sweat.
Thanks for looking!

Mark Nakahara
 

Malabaristo

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Jul 11, 2008
Location
Wisconsin
So just wondering.... Can I remove the transformer from a Source 4 Mini LED, and wire it to a 12 volt dimming system? I have a bunch of LED strips being powered by cheap LED dimmer modules. These put out 12 volts and I was wondering if the little black box transformer does some ETC magic to alter the timing or some other spell. It would sure make my life easier if I can stick to 12 volt dimming. Not insurmountable but lots less sweat.
Thanks for looking!

Mark Nakahara

Nope.

The incandescent version of the S4-Mini uses a third-party 12VAC "electronic transformer" (really a switching power supply, but it basically acts like a transformer). The LED version uses a custom LED driver that outputs the very specific voltage and current required to drive the LED directly. I don't know offhand what those numbers are, but it is definitely not 12V. Inside the fixture is just the LED itself with no additional electronics, so connecting 12V to it will almost certainly destroy it. If you wanted to convert to running off 12VDC you would need to get the LED specs from ETC and make or buy an LED driver that matches those specs. That approach would require a little bit of electronics knowledge to get right, and would definitely void your warranty.
 

Marknak357

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Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Nope.

The incandescent version of the S4-Mini uses a third-party 12VAC "electronic transformer" (really a switching power supply, but it basically acts like a transformer). The LED version uses a custom LED driver that outputs the very specific voltage and current required to drive the LED directly. I don't know offhand what those numbers are, but it is definitely not 12V. Inside the fixture is just the LED itself with no additional electronics, so connecting 12V to it will almost certainly destroy it. If you wanted to convert to running off 12VDC you would need to get the LED specs from ETC and make or buy an LED driver that matches those specs. That approach would require a little bit of electronics knowledge to get right, and would definitely void your warranty.
Yeah, I have the LEDs.... Sooo I guess I am getting a couple of small dimmers and mounting them in the truss somewhere. Just a thought... Oh Well.
 

Malabaristo

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Jul 11, 2008
Location
Wisconsin
Yeah, I have the LEDs.... Sooo I guess I am getting a couple of small dimmers and mounting them in the truss somewhere. Just a thought... Oh Well.
They're not really designed for portable use, but adapting an ETC Foundry Phase Adaptive Dimmer is probably best in terms of performance. The ES750 definitely will not work since the Mini requires a phase control dimmer (forward or reverse), and the output of the ES750 is.... well, weird (think full-wave rectified plus PWM). Based on specs, it looks like BAK-PAK dimmers could be an option, but I don't know how well they would perform. You're very likely to have poor dimming performance with most of the little 4-circuit dimmer packs since they just aren't designed well for small LED loads. I would definitely suggest doing a mockup and testing before committing to any specific approach.
 

RonHebbard

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Jun 12, 2004
Location
Waterdown, ON, CA
They're not really designed for portable use, but adapting an ETC Foundry Phase Adaptive Dimmer is probably best in terms of performance. The ES750 definitely will not work since the Mini requires a phase control dimmer (forward or reverse), and the output of the ES750 is.... well, weird (think full-wave rectified plus PWM). Based on specs, it looks like BAK-PAK dimmers could be an option, but I don't know how well they would perform. You're very likely to have poor dimming performance with most of the little 4-circuit dimmer packs since they just aren't designed well for small LED loads. I would definitely suggest doing a mockup and testing before committing to any specific approach.
@Marknak357 and @Malabaristo If you're going to try any of "the little 4-circuit dimmer packs" you MAY try adding a 40 or 60 Watt incandescent dummy load to every channel you're attempting to use to power your LED's. (This same dummy load trick often works when attempting to power and dim small neon signs from the sixties and seventies.)
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
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Marknak357

Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
They're not really designed for portable use, but adapting an ETC Foundry Phase Adaptive Dimmer is probably best in terms of performance. The ES750 definitely will not work since the Mini requires a phase control dimmer (forward or reverse), and the output of the ES750 is.... well, weird (think full-wave rectified plus PWM). Based on specs, it looks like BAK-PAK dimmers could be an option, but I don't know how well they would perform. You're very likely to have poor dimming performance with most of the little 4-circuit dimmer packs since they just aren't designed well for small LED loads. I would definitely suggest doing a mockup and testing before committing to any specific approach.
Thanks for the reply! I have to keep it lean,so no real dimmers. There is just no room. It’s in a booth at a trade show. Running the EOS on an 11” PC. And that sits on whatever is on top of the refrigerator. We just expanded our truss, so rethink the whole lighting setup.

Anyway, thanks for the info.

Mark Nak
 

RonHebbard

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Jun 12, 2004
Location
Waterdown, ON, CA
I have about 20 of the S4 LED Minis in my small studio, and I dim them off an ADJ/Elation 24ch board with 5 Powerpacks. *If* you can find the LED Dummy plugs, they dim just fine. Problem is, last time I looked for them the LED Dummys don't seem to exist anymore.

Anyone else got a source?
@videographer Clearly this appears to be an instance when it's time to put out CB's 'bat call' for @rsmentele
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 

rsmentele

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