Stage rigging collapses at Indiana State Fair
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ptero
Active Member
The following is from: 7th Victim To Donate Organs After Fair Stage Collapse - Indiana News Story - WRTV Indianapolis
Indiana State Police and the Marion County Coroner's Office initially said Meagan Toothman, 24, of Cincinnati, had died Sunday night, but Deputy Coroner Alfie Ballew and ISP 1st Sgt. Dave Bursten later clarified that Toothman was being kept on life support, with death imminent. {end paste}
Apparently, she was pronounced dead by the coroner late Sunday night. She remains on life support through Monday while arrangements are being made to take advantage of her donation of organs.
Indiana State Police and the Marion County Coroner's Office initially said Meagan Toothman, 24, of Cincinnati, had died Sunday night, but Deputy Coroner Alfie Ballew and ISP 1st Sgt. Dave Bursten later clarified that Toothman was being kept on life support, with death imminent. {end paste}
Apparently, she was pronounced dead by the coroner late Sunday night. She remains on life support through Monday while arrangements are being made to take advantage of her donation of organs.
Les
Well-Known Member
That's awful! A lesson to be learned though: don't let anyone strong arm you in to doing something (or not doing something) when those alarm bells in your head are going off saying "I shouldn't be up here, I shouldn't be doing this!". Fight or flight syndrome is there for a reason, and don't let any superior convince you otherwise. They are your boss at work, but not of your life. This goes for any situation where you feel unsafe, including that college student who was blown over in the scissor lift. Trust your instincts, always.
Of course, I mean absolutely no disrespect to the spot ops who lost their lives. They were only [and honorably] doing as told. What happened was terrible, but we can learn from this. The boss doesn't always know best and don't trust your life in anyone's hands but your own. It's the only one you've got.
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blackisthenewblack
Active Member
Wow, that article contained almost no new relevant information. Now irrelevant information...
Union: Fair stagehands were state employees - 13 WTHR
All the work I have ever done through the union, I was assigned by the union but was paid by the event. Now if they had hired a company that supplies hands and riggers, then that company would be liable for the training and workmanship. Even then the work is done under the supervision of the equipment supplier. As a supervisor for one such company, when I rig a show we are saying it is done in a safe and proper manner. If a company is trying to get you to do something that is unsafe or improper then it is the lablr company's responsibility to balk. Sending those guys up should have fallen in that line. The rigger should have said no and the union should have backed him. If the Fair or promoter decides to try to do the show, that's their call, they do it without truss spots. I have been asked to go on a truss in lightning and I said no, I wouldn't nor any of my guys would either. They were mad because they didn't get the effect they wanted and they had to pay us on top of it. We were scheduled to do a show call, we were there but it was unsafe to do so.
All the work I have ever done through the union, I was assigned by the union but was paid by the event. Now if they had hired a company that supplies hands and riggers, then that company would be liable for the training and workmanship. Even then the work is done under the supervision of the equipment supplier. As a supervisor for one such company, when I rig a show we are saying it is done in a safe and proper manner. If a company is trying to get you to do something that is unsafe or improper then it is the lablr company's responsibility to balk. Sending those guys up should have fallen in that line. The rigger should have said no and the union should have backed him. If the Fair or promoter decides to try to do the show, that's their call, they do it without truss spots. I have been asked to go on a truss in lightning and I said no, I wouldn't nor any of my guys would either. They were mad because they didn't get the effect they wanted and they had to pay us on top of it. We were scheduled to do a show call, we were there but it was unsafe to do so.
One of the wrongful death suits. Wrongful-death suit filed by woman whose same-sex partner was killed in Indiana stage collapse - chicagotribune.com
shiben
Well-Known Member
The union's job is to protect their members... Thus they are protecting them (perhaps misguidedly) from being blamed for the collapse. My guess is the judge will grant a stay to accept arguments, and since people died, and one of those was a union member, the union records will be seized following a hearing deciding that course of action. Anyone have any knowledge of precedent based on other union members involved in workplace accidents? My guess is that Indiana would have some sort of regulations on this sort of thing, what with a very industrialized northern bit and all...
Under due course, the records will be provided. The state hires union workers, but the state is the employer at that time. The union is basically a labor referral agency who offers a collective bargaining to make sure that all members are treated fairly and will protect those members. When the state hires the stagehands, it would be their responsibility to specify any types of certifications. If they said "We need 20 stagehands" then there is no guarantee of their skills. If they specified that they wanted a certain number to have a certain degree of training, then it is the union's responsibility to provide them with specific stagehands who meet that criteria. I would have to agree that at this point in the investigation, it looks like they are trying to find a scapegoat and not put it on the organizers who failed to have a suitable plan for bad weather.
As for precedent, it is a workplace accident. Union members are employed by some entity and that entity would be the responsible party for the workplace accident.
This is the biggest difference between the union and any other staging company. The union is not an employer. No union is. If you go to the grocery store and the clerk is a member of the UFCW, they are still an employee of said store, not the union. I don't know why people don't understand that, unless it is because stagehands are generally temporary employees.
As for precedent, it is a workplace accident. Union members are employed by some entity and that entity would be the responsible party for the workplace accident.
This is the biggest difference between the union and any other staging company. The union is not an employer. No union is. If you go to the grocery store and the clerk is a member of the UFCW, they are still an employee of said store, not the union. I don't know why people don't understand that, unless it is because stagehands are generally temporary employees.
shiben
Well-Known Member
The precedent would be could IOSHA serve a warrant on any other union (steel workers, for example), should some of their members be involved in an accident. Could they/have they done that? And the reason people might have that conception about IA is because of what you mentioned, the extreme amount of effectively temp work. Not saying the IA is doing something wrong here, just thinking aloud about it.
And for what its worth, I happen to agree that they want someone other than the organizers to blame. I guess IF I was IOSHA I would be curious as to what certs the hands had, if that would change what the problem was in the end, I dont know. I mean, there IS something to be said for covering your bases, but in the end, the fact remains that a structure that was effectively a large sail was up and had people in the rigging and under it during a storm, and if that had not been the situation, perhaps no one would have died. However, Im just wondering if IOSHA has/does not have that authority to pull union records, which I suspect they do.
First good news to come out of the "tragic accident"/"foreseeable occurrence":
State Fair moves 2012 concerts to Conseco Fieldhouse | 2011-11-10 | Indianapolis Business Journal | IBJ.com
State Fair moves 2012 concerts to Conseco Fieldhouse | 2011-11-10 | Indianapolis Business Journal | IBJ.com
Is this the first legal case to come out?
Stage collapse victims file suit vs. Sugarland - Entertainment - Music - TODAY.com
Stage collapse victims file suit vs. Sugarland - Entertainment - Music - TODAY.com
From Bill requiring Indiana stage inspections advances | www.whiotv.com :
Will requiring a state inspection make things safer?
EDIT: From http://www.indystar.com/article/201...-Senate?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com :
The problem is, inspected by whom? There are probably less than ten industry experts I'd personally trust to do this type of inspection. None of them a city/county/state inspector. Further, if they are inspecting solely for compliance with a manufacturer's specifications, don't we think that's already being done? I have a very strong suspicion that the evidence will eventually show that the Indiana State Fair structure met all requirements and was assembled in accordance with its manufacturer.
Will requiring a state inspection make things safer?
EDIT: From http://www.indystar.com/article/201...-Senate?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com :
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