Conventional Fixtures Striplight LED Retrofit

Hey CB,

A quick search yielded no results, so I thought I'd ask here:

What would be the cons of installing dimmable LED lamps (such as the ones people have been replacing house lighting with) in striplights to replace the incandescent 100 watt mismatched lamps that are installed in them now?

What impact would doing this have on the output color when using strips with gels?

I ask because doing this would save dimmer space as we would be able to plug a whole set of striplights into just 3 or 4 dimmers.

Thoughts?
 
Hey CB,

A quick search yielded no results, so I thought I'd ask here:

What would be the cons of installing dimmable LED lamps (such as the ones people have been replacing house lighting with) in striplights to replace the incandescent 100 watt mismatched lamps that are installed in them now?

What impact would doing this have on the output color when using strips with gels?

I ask because doing this would save dimmer space as we would be able to plug a whole set of striplights into just 3 or 4 dimmers.

Thoughts?
Well, There are a few downsides.
1: These don't usually dim all the way to 0%, they will dim down to 3-5% and then snap out.
2: They don't usually gel well, due to the nature of an LED, they don't have an even distribution of color wavelengths in the color of "white" It may look white, but really its 2 or 3 spikes of color when combined makes "white", but when gelled, since you don't have an even distribution of wavelengths, the gel often does't work the way expected. Usually you get very little output, or a completely different color.

That being said, if you can deal with the dimming issues, Take a look at the Gel that LEE developed for LED lamps.
They would definitely be worth a try.

Lee LED Filters

If you are seriously interesting in doing this, buy a couple and give them a try.
Thats your best bet to see if they will work out for you.

Good Luck!
 
I agree with Joshua. If you do test some, please report. The only mains dimming retrofit LEDs we use at all are the TCP brand, but only when we don't have a choice and usually couple them with a high performance dimmer tuned for sources like this, like Fleenor's DMX8DIM.
 
Your other option is to do a very very serious retrofit and build in the LED's and a controller for color mixing via DMX. You would basically be making your own LED fixture. It's a little more work that you asked for and you must be thinking by now that it isn't for the faint of heart and you would be correct. However, if you are interested I will make my recommendations below.

For the input you would need some kind of micro controller, here you have thousands of options but I will just present three.

For something a lot easier to program you could use an Arduino Uno. These are super simple to use and if you have absolutely no programming experience you can probably do it. You will need to run a level converter to get the DMX data into the controller but the hard low level programming would be taken care of. The MAX485 level converter works well. This will run you between $15 and $35. At $15 you would probably need to build your own arduino from scratch, which is harder, but still not impossible with zero experience. The drawback with this solution is that the PWM runs at a certain frequency that is probably not fast enough to get really smooth fades to 0 or fades between colors. You could ramp up the PWM frequency but that isn't super easy. I could tell you how if I found some old code I wrote for this platform.

Look here for more information on Arduino: Arduino - HomePage

You could also get some thing a little more down to earth like some kind of ARM M4 platform. Texas Instuments make a really sweet ARM M4 board that some companies use for prototyping called the TIVA C (Tiva C LaunchPad Kits) It has a lot of really great features and has way more processing power than you would need but the boards are pretty cheap. I will warn you though, unless you have some serious programming experience you will not be able to complete the project with this controller. You have to program a lot of low level stuff. I know about this board because I am using it for a project where I work developing some embedded systems technology. I am a student so I don't have mountains of experience but I do almost have a degree and have put 20+ hours into learning how to dim an LED and read in data from a serial connection. You will need a level converter like the MAX485 for this as well.

One major advantage to using the the TIVA C is that you can ramp up the PWM Frequency pretty majorly and should be able to get decent fades. I'm not sure how well it would fade to 0 though. You could probably use the TIVA MSP430 with an Energia (Arduino like) and it would be much simpler but I have zero experience in this regard and so I can't tell you exactly how I think it would go.


The Next thing to chose would be LED's.

I would recommend the Luxeon Rebel LEDs. They are the same LEDs used in fixtures like the award winning ETC Seledor D40's and the ETC Source Four LEDs. This place online called "Steve's LEDs" sells them for pretty cheap and they are already mounted on heat sinks (so they don't get to hot and burn out). You can browse his whole catalog and pick the ones you want but this is a pretty good deal:

Tristar

I recently ordered about $130 worth of LEDs for a project I am working on and I was very satisfied with the quality. You will need to buy resistors and such but if you are really interested in doing the project I would help you with that.

Keep in mind that in ETC fixtures they use 7 different colors of LEDs to improve color mixing. You could build something similar but don't try to sell it. The X7 color system is patented and you could get into legal trouble.

Anyhow, after all of that it just becomes about ripping out the old stuff and putting in the new stuff (and power supplies but this post is getting long).
 
Your other option is to do a very very serious retrofit and build in the LED's and a controller for color mixing via DMX. You would basically be making your own LED fixture. It's a little more work that you asked for and you must be thinking by now that it isn't for the faint of heart and you would be correct. However, if you are interested I will make my recommendations below.
Wow! Thanks for taking the time to write so much, but I think I'm going to try to stay away from a complete retrofit like this. I might purchase some dimmable LED Par-type lamps and see how they work versus the old incandescent lamps. The reason I'm considering replacing all the lamps with LED is that all the old incandescent lamps are burned out since the fixtures haven't been used in a LONG time... Which means I need to fire up the air compressor and dust them out, too.
 
I did a retrofit for a school a couple of years ago using Toshiba dimmable LEDs. They certainly weren't as bright as the old lamps. This particular application wasn't using gels, they wanted to keep the old rondels. Then again, they had stopped using the striplights for production, and they were in a preset for just general space use (the band practiced on the stage, and a few other things). Worked well for them, but they didn't care about the loss of the lower end curve, and the lower output.
 
No problem Back Stage Badger. I wanted to share the idea because maybe someone with a huge amount of time will come around and be curious about retrofitting lights. Your reply is exactly what I expected.
 
And, just to reinforce that caution, Eric, some stuff you probably already know. (But which people wandering in late might not... :))

Filters/gel/roundels work on tungsten and fluorescent sources *because those sources have a continuous emission spectrum*; the filter passes the color that it is, *because the illuminant generates it*.

Colored LEDs, obviously, have very spiky color spectra; One Big Peak, in general. "White" LEDs are blue/violet/UV dies with a phosphor in front of them, which generates its own spectrum when illuminated. That spectrum isn't guaranteed to be as smooth as one coming from a tungsten filament, of whatever type, and so your efficiency drops markedly.

If you're trying to do unicolor lamp emulation, as you would in a striplight, you're probably better off doing each lamp with the color of LED that it is -- though even then, the color spectrum will show a much sharper peak than tungsten plus gel/roundel would, and this will affect what it looks like.

Lighting a cyc, it may not matter. Lighting people or natural objects, perhaps another matter.
 
This is probably a good article to look at. Evil Rubber Ducky by Tony Hansen

Notice that on the white fabric it looks fine but on a colored object it doesn't. This is because of some sciencey things relating to color that I wont dive into due to time. If you are interested I would post about it later today.
 
If anyone has a picture of the rubber ducky on white fabric illuminated in yellow from many different companies sources I would be very interested. Especially the ETC Seledor line or Source 4 LEDs.
 
The rubber duck demonstration is likely referring to CRI (Color Rendering Index). In a nutshell, the higher the CRI, the better the illuminated object will look. A CRI of 100 is considered to be very good.

A good example would be how Sodium Vapor streetlights make everything look brown due to their low CRI.


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The rubber duck demonstration is likely referring to CRI (Color Rendering Index). In a nutshell, the higher the CRI, the better the illuminated object will look. A CRI of 100 is considered to be very good.

A good example would be how Sodium Vapor streetlights make everything look brown due to their low CRI.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


100 is not just very good, it's just about perfect, since it's a percentage.

What intrigues me, we seem to think what we were use to last is the goal, but things change. Campfire to gas and lime light to early carbon filament incandescent and now to quartz and some fluorescent that is not too bad and a lot want LED to mimic quartz. What will people in the next century be adapting to or fighting.

Anyone know much about the R96 CRI?
 
Yes CRI is a major part of looking at this picture but remember that CRI is not defined for sources that are not approximately white. When you mix LEDs to create the color yellow your source is not approximately white. I'm not sure that it applies here. When I get off of work later I will go into this more.

@BillConnerASTC I don't know about R96CRI, I would love to get my hands on the documents for that. Know anyone in the PLASA Photometrics Working Group?
 
I believe so, yes. Altman calls them "Medium Screw-Base Sockets". I don't actually have these fixtures yet, but I will soon. (Don't worry, I'm not paying a cent for them).
 

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