Students' complaints

[banjokeith]

I am sorry if this makes me sound like some far older and more bitter than I should be at 29, but I am so sick and tired of this site serving as a forum for high schoolers to whine and complain that their school districts and drama teachers won't let them run the theater the way they, in their 18 months of "experience" think it should be run.

Here I was, searching the forum to try to find Gaff tape reviews, and I stumble into another one of these threads. I have finally had enough, and must say what has been on my mind for several years now.

First off, stop complaining about the poor conditions of your theater. In an era of educational cuts and funding issues you should be grateful that you have any program, and that you have any sort of space to perform in. I am not saying that conditions should be unsafe, but these constant complaints about limited equipment, or that "we don't have any movers" or "we only have a few S4s"...

Get over it. I started off in a district with no facility of its own. We performed our shows in an 1870s theater that had been renovated once by community volunteers in the 1980s. Hanging a show involved at least a day of digging through the pile of assorted instruments and attempting to assemble a few that worked, and I'm not complaining. I loved it. I was happy to have a place to perform, and to not be in a gymnasium with par cans (which I am sure I would have loved too).

You don't need movers, you don't need source fours, you don't need the state of the art board. Take this time to learn to light with crap, because if you can make crap look good now, when you do get access to fancier toys later in life you will know what to do with them. The principles are all the same. If you give fancy equipment to someone who has never learned to light something, you tend to end up with a truss of gimmicks and a show that looks like something the local DJ hauled in from the back of his minivan.

Secondly, you are a student. You are in your mid teens, and as much as you want to think otherwise you still have very limited knowledge of how the world functions. I don't mean to sound like an ass, but I will admit fully to being the same way when I was 16.

You don't deserve keys to your booth. The district does not need to clear things with you before changing anything in its theater. The band teacher gets to us the lights for his class too. If the director wants the board in the middle of the third row, the board goes in the middle of the third row.

Your theater program and your district has insurance companies, parents, unions, board members and a host of other people it needs to answer to before you get your say in how its facilities should be run. Decisions are often made with these groups in mind, or with a larger picture being considered. You will be out of this school district in a very short time but the staff may be thinking of the next few decades rather than just this show.

I'm sorry. I think it is great that younger students are this passionate and involved, but get over yourselves. Nobody stands up in the middle of a math class and argues that their method of differentiation should be used, why is theater so much different. And honestly, good luck getting, or rather, preserving a job with that attitude. Carry this "I know what I'm doing because..." attitude out in the world, and see how far it actually gets you.

 

[Esoteric]

Re: Abandoned Light Booth

I agree to some point.

However to say that someone's opinion is not valid because they are 16 is very short sided. At what point does their opinion become valid?

You make a few logical fallacies in your post, you try to take separate issues and meld them into one argument.

As you point out, safety issues should be addressed no matter who brings them up. The District is often out of touch with the day to day operations in their facilities. Even theater Directors can often be out of touch. In the school I worked at the Director had no technical background and often spent most of the time in her office. When I arrived the conditions were very unsafe (to the point where a runaway lineset had actually broken part of the fly system). I had a senior go through the space and point out to me everything that was wrong and unsafe. Some of his complaints were...... Childish. But he knew more about that space than the Director or the District. When safety is an issue I will listen to anyone's complaint. Period.

As far as the Director running their program the way they want to, yes they are the Director and you are not. Yes they can run their program anyway they see fit (and there MIGHT just be reasons for what they do), but there is NO harm in a student asking why they are doing things the way they are. In fact, the student might *gasp* learn something from it!!! An example came in my first show as Technical Director at the Fine Arts Academy. I put the sound and light board in the house. This had never been done and the student thought it was the stupidest thing ever. They complained to me and I sat them down and told them why I did it. They got it right away. Another time I set a rule that the fly rail was to rain locked and no one was to touch linesets without me being present. They thought this was unfair, complain, complain, complain. But I did a short (and graphic) presentation about the dangers of rigging. They got it. They always thought I was being over protective, but they respected it. Yet aother example they wanted to rent a buch of gear for a show. I sat down with the budget numbers with my head technician (a senoir) and said you have $X to spend on all the shows, how would you divide it? It became an assignment for him and he learned a lot about resources and how to allocate them. He passed this information down to the other kids and it turned into a valuable lesson. I have even been wrong before as well. Students have pointed out how things are possible that I had declared impossible and I allowed them to impliment their solutions (under my supervision).

Now students reading this, approach these issues the right way!! Approach it to find out why the people in power are doing things the way they are, and assume that they have reasons that you don't know about. Try to learn. You can question those in power, but never question them disrespectfully.

As far as others using the theater, yes they are entitled. But it sounds like a lack of organization if they are moving things around and changing them without telling people. That is rude and disrespectful. That is why for anyone using the theater (which they all could) me or one of my assistants had to be there.

Also you are not entitled to anything. A theater program at all is not a prerequsitie for an education (unless you are attending an arts magnet). We had a 50 seat theater with 10 foot ceilings and 6 dimmers when I was in school. No scene shop, no costume shop. The teachers lounge was the green room and the bathrooms were the dressing rooms.

A good rul of thumb is if you are trying to understand why things are the way they are it is good, if you are just complaining about what you don't have that is not productive and not appreciated.

Mike

 

[icewolf08]

Re: Abandoned Light Booth

I just want to say, that ControlBooth was founded as a forum for theatre education. it was geared towards students at the high school and college level. It has since grown quite considerably, but one of the main focuses is still working with students. Most of our membership is made up of students. We do continue to grow and branch out and we are picking up more and more people from the professional world which makes this community such a valuable resource to all of the members.

First of all, I don't think that there are too many of us who, when we were in high school, didn't have something to complain about with regards to the theatre department. Most of us probably suffered at some point from "big-fish-in-a-small-pond" syndrome. Some of us still might and some got over that really fast. I think that while we all KNEW that we didn't know everything, we sure tried to make it look like we did.

For people around the age of banjokeith and myself the internet was really a new idea when we were in high school. There were not placed like ControlBooth where you could surf to online and ask questions or vent. For the older folks, they were probably not even really dreaming of the possibility of a forum like this where you could talk to technicians all over the world nearly instantaneously.

Everyone comes from a different background. Some high schools have theatres, some don't. Some have beautiful facilities and no one knows how to work them. Some have lousy facilities but a great crew and faculty who can make the best of what they have. However, no matter what background you have, I bet there was something that you complained about. In fact, I bet there is something that you still complain about.

Sure, now it is probably the politics that go on behind the scenes of the theatre or company you work for, so a little more "sophisticated" as-it-were. However, I know that every now and then I complain about some of the gear that I have. My consoles are old, I have some pretty old fixtures, I don't have a huge budget. There is also the: "You what me to stick lights where? In that piece of scenery that is fully built and can't have any holes in it..."

I guess my point is that I don't think that it is fair to chastise our younger members for the things they complain about. Everyone complains about something. Just think, 30 years from now today's high schoolers will probably be wondering why tomorrow's high schoolers are complaining about the things that they think are old, but were the standard.

You don't have to read every thread on controlbooth if you don't want to. So if a thread is too whiny for you, skip it. I highly doubt that telling people to get over whatever they might be complaining about will work.

 

[Esoteric]

Re: Abandoned Light Booth

Great post Ice. I just got through complaining that I got to design at a great theater that doesn't have an ME (man the show I just got through with could use one).

Mike

 

[SHARYNF]

Re: Abandoned Light Booth

The advice I would give the younger folks here is that the "biz" so to speak is full of frustration, attempting to do the impossible with little time or money or sometimes equipment. I guess sometimes it is like the weather, we all complain about it but have very little chance to actually change it.

It is important to realize that each of us no matter what age probably knows a lot about some areas more than the folks they are dealing with, but at the same time there are areas that these folks also know more about than we do. This is very much a collaborative area, where part of the art or science is taking all these different resources and abilities and making it all work. A lot of it is managing and dealing with people and frustration. Most of the really successful folks learn this early on, what you know technically is valuable, but how you are able to work together, and share and gather more information and in the end get a complex task done is what it is all about

So for the younger folks:

Learn how to learn, learn that all the great tech stuff you know today is likely to be modified in the future as things progress, but being effective in dealing with people is the enduring lesson for success


Sharyn

 

[DuckJordan]

Re: Abandoned Light Booth

Speaking from a 19 year old student, In my view a lot of things are done in our theater that are not to my liking. I am not saying it should change. but on the other hand our director is a pack rat. we have slowly started convincing him to start throwing away garbage such as small pieces of chicken wire as well as some of the cardboard and other such things that we really never use. not to say that he hasn't said no to things but we still ask questions about what we are not sure of and there is always a sense of communication.

If you take offense to such a topic as to ask a question about or possible help someone maybe controlbooth is not the right forum audience for you. if i have a question no one can awnser i post it here. It is generaly answered by alot of people who have very diffrent oppinions but they still answer no matter how whiney i can get. I complain about what lights we have, I complain about our sound system. and i complain about our lack of budget. This doesn't mean i sit on my butt all day long and complain it just means i am persuing helping the school district by suggesting possible Upgrades for future growth. While i know it may never happen, it still helps to keep on the powers behind with the little light saying "hey if we have some extra money we should spend it on ..."

I may have a tendency to whine a bit more but that just means i am paying attention and am willing to communicate my issues instead of stow em away and not get an opinion out. in my 5 years experience i have noticed that even though incoming freshman know almost nothing about producing a show they still can give some good ideas on how things are done. While their opinion may be less valued than someone with 20 years of experience it does not mean its not valuable.

To sum up what i have stated, Its not a matter of high schoolers complaining but rather how they are trying to answer their questions. so instead of making a wide generalization about "teens and their complaining", figure out just what they are asking or saying and try and teach them.

 

[derekleffew]

Mod. Note: The above posts were moved here from the thread Abandoned Light Booth.

banjokeith, did you find the information on gaffers tape you were seeking? It's been a long time since we've debated the merits of Permacel, Pro-Gaff, Shur-Tape, etc. (I think some of those no longer exist as brands. Feel free to start a new thread, I suppose under Facility, as everyone in a facility uses gaff tape.

As to the issues raised in this thread--all viewpoints are valid, and I thank banjokeith for voicing his opinion.

 

[chris325]

As a high school sophomore, I think that there is really not a terrible amount of complaining done on here. I mean there's even a specific sub-forum for it, ranting is what The Punching Bag is for. I know that I've done it before on here, my school has a fully Colortran install to deal with, which isn't always too much fun. But it works. And a good designer can make a show look great with those insturments and control systems, even if it's harder. Yeah, I understand that a lot of you spent high school working in much less equipped facilities than me, which is why I am really grateful for the beautiful auditorium my school has.

Life's hard. Get a helmet.

 

[TimmyP1955]

"A reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. An unreasonable man persists in attempting to adapt his environment to suit himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

George Bernard Shaw

 

[gafftaper]

I've seen this issue from several sides and in a sense I think most of the points raised above are right. There are students around here who whine about their equipment. There are students who have "king of the booth" syndrome and think just because they can hang 36 fixtures and program 24 cues on an Express 24/48 they are professional lighting designers. There are also adults who over react, and feel like they are being disrespected by these attitudes, when they are just a natural part of being a teen technician.

Future stage technicians:
Be realistic. Most schools have very little budget for theater equipment. Be happy with what you have. There is ALWAYS someone with a worse situation out there. When you get to college you will have the opportunity to use a wider variety of better equipment. Many of you are self taught or were taught by a graduating senior, not a professional who really knows their stuff. Odds are you have MANY bad habits and misconceptions. You will have to relearn much of what you accept as truth (you are doing that already by hanging out here). Again, college is where you will learn that. Don't become an egomaniac. You are still in high school. Take your time. Do your best. LEARN what you can. NEVER accept that you somehow know it all, because you don't. I'm 40 years old and I teach at a college. I consider my knowledge to be just starting to scratch the surface compared to many around here. Try volunteering at a community theater. You can learn a lot about what it's like in the real world. Your assignment from your teacher Gaff... CAREFULLY read the following two collaborative articles and LISTEN to what they have to say: Advice for new technicians and Getting a Job in the Industry. Most of all be humble and respectful.

When on CB remember this isn't Facebook and you aren't just hanging out with your friends. There are people from all over the industry who work here. Real industry legends. People who work for manufacturers. People who sell equipment. People who work on tours and MASSIVE budget shows. People who do jobs cooler than you can imagine are hanging out on this website. This industry is all about networking and I've developed friendships with people in great positions all over the world here. If I were looking for a position I have know doubt that my contacts here on CB could help me find a great job. So put on your best image here and make a good impression. A connection from CB may help you get a job someday. Be appreciative, most 16 year old tech theater students don't have people with the vast wealth of knowledge and power in the industry listening to them and answering their questions every day. The pros around here hang out here to give back a little and because they want to help you be the best technician you can be... they don't need to do it. So be respectful and say thank you.

Old Pros:
Remember you were young once. I remember vividly remember the feeling of being so proud because my teacher picked me to mix 23 microphones for a choir concert in the school gym. The pressure of making sure I got the right solo mics. The pride when I did it all without any feedback. Then there was the first time I locked in all the handles on the lighting panel and pulled them at the same time. I was one of the only people tall enough and strong enough to run the top row of handles.

We thought we were amazing back then and we didn't know how little we actually knew. So be patient. You are doing an amazing thing by hanging out here and helping to educate the next generation of technicians. Those who hang out here and take your words of wisdom to heart will be great technicians some day. Sadly, most students don't have a good T.D. at their school to teach them. So by being here you are a surrogate for the real thing. By being here and reading your advice they will grow and be better technicians because they have good role models here on CB to follow. That's a great thing and a noble thing. They are young and think they rule the world, you were the same way once, be patient and teach them. They will grow up and have a great respect for you because of it.

 

[jstroming]

Was different types of Gaff Tape really discussed? Oh boy haha.

 

[photoatdv]

Coming from a college tech that's just starting to fake my way through professional gigs...

There is no high school in the country that teaches you how to be a professional tech (though I will admit there is the rare hs tech that is... but not because of their hs. Of the two that I know of, one's parents owned a huge AV company-- and he went on gigs and played with the gear in the shop, the other was sort of a prodigy in this-- he did every class, internship, job he could get outside of school).

As far as the OUR-GEAR-SUCKS thing--- I feel your pain. However... get creative with what you have. Theres a school around here that hires me to come in and design/supervise lighting... and they have 10 lights. Wanna know why they hire someone for 10 lights? Because I know how to make those 10 lights look good... their kids just say we don't have enough equipment. Also I know how to take other stuff around the theatre and make it useful (as long as it's safe, there's no rule against using work or accent lights as part of your design).

Also--- for all the high school techs. You think there's pressure NOW??? On making your schools whatever go off perfectly? Wait til you are doing shows that spend more that your schools yearly performing arts budget on labor for one night of one show. Real shows RARLY have major problems (like they have to be cancelled bad), but when they do, it costs hundreds of thousands, and people often get fired.

I'd rather our students rant about it in punching bag than to their teacher. However, before you post asking a simple question... google it/pull up the manual (if you can find it in less than 2 minutes that way and it's not something that would make an interesting discussion, please don't ask!). Also I'd rather we tell them something's a bad idea than discuss another high school theatre tragedy.

Okay... soap box over

 

[Anvilx]

Experience isn't everything and nor is age, often it is a factor to how one performs. However, sometimes the best ideas come from people who have a different view of things or have different experiences.

Disqualifying people by their age is atrocious and quite frankly is as disgusting as disqualifying people by race or gender.

I am 16. I am by no means the most qualified technician. But I am not nearly as clueless as paint my generation. I have been doing this for about 4 years. I work hard; I did 50 hours in a week in addition to school earlier this year. I handle all of our renting and do 2 ~$5K shows a year. I don't think that's typical of a 16 year old, I have to ask do I fit your stereotype?

I will admit that some of the members my age have been known to complain about things. However I have to say that there are times to complain and that is when the effort you put in is much greater than the outcome. School is supposed to help students succeed and become better in a safe environment and if that isn't happening then something is wrong. By posting a complaint here one can get feedback on how to handle the situation. Where else can you get help if have relatively limited resources?

The only way to improve is to ask questions.

 

[gafftaper]

As far as the OUR-GEAR-SUCKS thing--- I feel your pain. However... get creative with what you have. Theres a school around here that hires me to come in and design/supervise lighting... and they have 10 lights. Wanna know why they hire someone for 10 lights? Because I know how to make those 10 lights look good...

An excellent point. High school and college are the time to experiment and learn how to use what you have to the best of your abilities. You are learning skills that will be very helpful in the community and fringe theater world some day. You know not everyone get's a job one Broadway their first week out of college. It's more likely you'll spend most of your 20's piecing together a living doing all kinds of odd jobs (many at theaters with budgets smaller than your high school and even less gear). Learning to be creative with what you have is a very important skill.

Experience isn't everything and nor is age, often it is a factor to how one performs. However, sometimes the best ideas come from people who have a different view of things or have different experiences.

Disqualifying people by their age is atrocious and quite frankly is as disgusting as disqualifying people by race or gender.

I am 16. I am by no means the most qualified technician. But I am not nearly as clueless as paint my generation..

Anvil you are right and wrong here and I think missing a critical but subtle point. Age is not a particular critical factor... there are young geniuses out there doing amazing things. I knew a kid who got hired by Lucas Film a few months before graduating from high school because they needed his unique talents to create animation for Star Wars: Episode One. You are clearly in a pretty good drama program and your posts around here show you have had some good training. No one is discounting what you know or saying that because you are 16 you shouldn't have an opinion.

However, Experience is everything in this industry. You could be a genious and have memorized every book ever written on tech theater. But you will have a very hard time beating out a person who has 30 years of experience doing the job and hasn't read a book in 25 years. You have to work your way up. When a show which costs MILLIONS of dollars heads out on tour, they are only going to trust it to someone who has proven over and over that they can handle it. Age... not that important. Prove you know what to do under pressure when everything falls apart... that's critical. Unfortunately experience comes with time so age indirectly becomes a factor.

The subtle point: no one here is saying "You don't know anything because you are only 16". What people are saying is "It's annoying when 16 year old thinks he knows everything". Big difference. You know what? It's also annoying when 30, 40, and 50 year olds think they know everything. You know what else... know-it-alls tend to find it hard to get work because word travels fast in this industry. We all specialize. It's impossible to know it all. Only a fool claims to know it all in this industry... regardless of their age. We should all make it a point to learn something new every day. I know I can learn from someone older or younger than me. Over the years there have been many times that I've gotten stuck designing a show and turned to my students for ideas. So don't be a know-it-all. Always say, "I have my own idea how I would do that but tell me how you would do it." You'll be very popular with that sort of attitude... and popular means you get called back for more gigs. More gigs=more experience. More experience= better gigs.

 

[HillJonathan]

Some times I miss doing High School Theater. I know thats sad to say and I have only been doing this for a very short 7 years but HS Theater made me think. I had ZERO Budget as far as I was concerned. Now I have a budget, if I need some thing 75% of the time it shows up. I have a crew that I work with that knows what an XLR is and what to do with it. And it doesn't take a class full of students to cut one sheet of Plywood in half. It was one of the best lessons I've ever gotten in the business. Im also going to say being close enough to half way between the I've done this for a long time and HS Theater is most of them are getting spoiled. I had to move iron, I learned what was safe and what wasn't not how to push a button and things fly. That a C-hammer had to be used some time to talk to that rusted light. And the do have connectors made out of wood. That was and may always be the hardest and funnest theater I've ever done.