suggestions and ideas

[gafftaper]

You are in good hands with BIllESC if you are hooked on LED's... he's the king of low price LED's. I'm still very skeptical about the output of the low priced LED's but you can't argue with some of the new products he's been telling us about.

Personally I would suggest you go with a smaller but more powerful incandescent solution... start with good basic light. Then think about adding LED's for a splash of color down the line. You could get a couple of ETC Smart Bar Dimmers, some ETC Source four Jr.s and/or ETC Source four pars, and a little NSI control board or (can't believe I'm saying this...) an ETC Smartfade. For around $5k you could put together a nice little 8-12 light conventional system that won't change colors but it'll put out a ton of light in the right place and serve you well for a LONG time. Get the basics first and cover them well. Add flashy colors later (see the gaftaper method for my philosophy on building and expanding low budget lighting systems here).

We have professional carpenters, welders, electricians, etc. as part of the church, so safe rigging won't be a problem.

You can't be more WRONG my friend. There was a church who had a young woman tragically fall to her death in December because the church thought they had the knowledge to do a flying stunt on their own without professional help. Anytime ANYTHING goes up in the air it IS a life and death situation. You need to have a real rigger analyze the situation... you also should have an engineer tell you if the building is strong enough to take the weight in that area.

Yeah you'll probably get lucky and your truss won't fall. But what if the chances are 1 in 10,000 that it does fall, what if they are 1 in 1,000. How do you KNOW that it won't fall without a professional rigger? What if it falls when the church is full? It'll kill everyone it hits. Are you willing to gamble that for a few hundred bucks?

 

[Esoteric]

I can't believe I am saying this but I am with Gafftaper here. Get your infrastructure in place first (dimmers, lights, control) and then expand from there. For $5k with no labor you should be able to fit in what you need and maybe a few LEDs as well.

Even with those LEDs (and you should check out the WDM LED fixtures, they make a great fixture for a reasonable price) once you put half a dozen Source 4's in for your front light, you are going to wash those out completely from the front. I would challenge you before you do this to get a demo unit of that LED bar and a Source 4 and point them both from the front of the room and see if the Source 4 punches a hole in the color that the LED projects. I tell you with 95% certainty that it will. You will end up with a lighter wash, splotchy, with focus problems (with your screen).

Use those fixtures if you want (although I don't think anything beats the WDM fixture), but use them in the back closer to their target so that they do not get washed out as much.

By the way, WDM sells a 3W 24 LED fixture that is just awesome that comes in at that same price point.

I would look into Source 4 90 degree fixtures so that you can get them as close to your congregation as possible.

Mike

 

[rroten]

First of all, I want to thank all of you for helping me through my brainstorming process. I think I want to try a few ideas and see what you guys think. So I've figured out that first I need plain old non-colored front lights. I've heard source 4 come up a lot. Can I get away with 4-6 of these, and can regular par 56/64 be substituted? Next, I need color washing. This is where I'm confused. Does the color washing come from behind or from the front with the front lights? What are my options besides LED's here? Next, I could do a wash of the back wall. I'm pretty sure LED strips on the floor are the ways to go here. I'd like to remind everyone that this rig should be expandable to maybe eventually be capable of concert style shows. At first though, we want the best bang for our buck color wise. If more front lights can be added later that is fine. On a side note, would the cheap $400 chauvet or ADJ movers be cool for special effects? Our youth drama occasionally does short 5-10min. skits. I was thinking stuff like crowd scans and various special effects. I know they wont work as good as pro stuff, but would they suffice for the occasional effect(that's basically what djs use them for)?

Thanks,
Ryan

 

[BillESC]

Color washes - usually from the sides and rear. Helps create depth to the visual image.

Front light - can be lekos, fresnels or par cans. Lekos will allow you to shape the light, fresnels are a soft edge light with adjustable beam spread. Pars are also soft edged fixtures with beam spread dependent on the lamp selected. Lekos will run around $ 300.00, fresnels around $ 150.00 and pars about $ 50.00. All will require dimming and control

IMHO, you should not consider moving head fixtures until you have obtained the basics and addressed your house lighting situation.

 

[Esoteric]

I am with Bill about getting your house and front lighting in first, and then moving on to more fancy things.

Back and side certainly for color.

Alyways use LEKOS of some kind for front light. Pars are just huge messy instruments that throw light all over the place and wash out your color. Source 4s are very affordable and the way to go.

Mike

 

[gafftaper]

I set up a church about 10 years ago with a basic kit. We installed two shoebox dimmers, got a little control board, and 8 Source four Pars. Total price was around $3k... back then... probably could do it for a less today... or get better gear at that price. No you aren't going to get a lot of fancy color but you will be able to see the preacher for the first time.

Did we determine how FAR the light throw is?

Source Four Pars are going to be a great option up to about 20 feet they will blend nicely, have a lot of good quality light output, and you can get a long life lamp that lasts forever. You could buy PAR 64's but you'll get better light at a lower wattage from the more expensive S4 PAR. In the end you'll be much happier with S4 PAR's.

If you want the ability chop edges neatly with shutters and possibly project a gobo image than you need elliposidals/"lekos"/"Source Fours" (same instrument three names). The Source Four are the industry standard in the US and they cost about $300 for a fixed lens and about $450 for a zoom (spend an extra $30 and get a Selecon Zoom if you want a zoom). If your distance isn't too far you could buy Source Four Jr's. They are smaller, not quite as powerfull and have a few less features. Jr's aren't for everyone, but for a small venue they could be a great choice that saves some money. You can get Jr.'s with a fixed lens for around $190. Zoomable Jr's run around $235.

Again what's your throw distance? The lights should be hung so they are aimed down at about a 45 degree angle. Angles higher than that will cause eye sockets that are dark and shadowy, lower than that and your people on stage will complain that it's blinding.

Another thought looking at those pictures. Have you considered something different for the audience lighting? I'm looking at that nice reflective white ceiling in your photos. You could turn off the florescents and buy some LED strips to wash the ceiling, it would give you some softer, dimmer indirect lighting. This will make the stage look a lot better with the regular lighting.

WOW, Esoteric agrees with Alex then a few post later agrees with me... What's this world coming too? We expect more from you Mike!