Three point down to 2

[Esoteric]

If you guys had to take a 3 point plot (for a thrust) and drop it down to 2 points, which point would you drop? How would you shift the lights? I think I have a plan, but I thought I would ask around.

Mike

 

[shiben]

Um, thats kind of a tough one... Might I ask why?

 

[icewolf08]

What are your current three points? Two fronts and a back? I think if I had to sacrifice to two points I would do a front and a top or back, would probably give the best pop.

 

[Grog12]

Uhm, honestly? Can't be done. Well it can but you're screwing a third of your audience. Typically three point lighting in thrust is a light at 3 6 and 9 (with US being noon). If you kill one of these points one third of your audience loses front light.

Tell us some more about your situation including why you "have" to drop to 2 points.
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[Esoteric]

Well, it is an inventory problem. I either have to compress the stage into 4 areas (maybe possible) or dump some of the fronts to be able to wiggle any color into the design. I have 24 Source 4 50 degree ERS units, 14 Fresnels, 6 Altman ERS units (4 6x9 and 2 6x12), 4 PAR36's, and 2 Technobeams. I have 24 Sensor dimmers, 2 shoebox dimmers 4 channel 600W per channel and 1500W max, and 1 shoebox dimmer with 600W pr channel and 2400W max. I have a 20'x10' (at last notice) stage area, 13' tall ceilings, in a room 80'x40'. I have to cut the front light off of the curtain at the back of the stage and the show is blocked to within a foot of said curtain. There is seating on all three sides.

I am trying to do DL, DC, DR, UL, CC, UR (all need to be able to be isolated). But I also think there needs to be a CR (between DR and UR) and a CL area. There needs to be a high cross for dance numbers. One of the high crosses must come across center to light a line of actors (think Seasons of Love from RENT). Then I am trying to add concert backgrounds (it is a cabaret type show, lots of musical numbers with talking in between). So I was hoping to fit in a blue fanned back light, a red straight back, an amber high side back angled in, two purple back lights, a light blue high back cross at CC, a green low back, and a couple of patterns.

You see my issue. I have been over this with some great LDs and gotten a myriad of responses (from screw the people on the extremes and hang a modified McCandiss to get the color you need all the way to put in your front light and then just take what is left for color even if you only get one wash out of it).

So what do you guys think?

Mike

 

[Grog12]

Well, it is an inventory problem. I either have to compress the stage into 4 areas (maybe possible) or dump some of the fronts to be able to wiggle any color into the design. I have 24 Source 4 50 degree ERS units, 14 Fresnels, 6 Altman ERS units (4 6x9 and 2 6x12), 4 PAR36's, and 2 Technobeams. I have 24 Sensor dimmers, 2 shoebox dimmers 4 channel 600W per channel and 1500W max, and 1 shoebox dimmer with 600W pr channel and 2400W max. I have a 20'x10' (at last notice) stage area, 13' tall ceilings, in a room 80'x40'. I have to cut the front light off of the curtain at the back of the stage and the show is blocked to within a foot of said curtain. There is seating on all three sides.

I am trying to do DL, DC, DR, UL, CC, UR (all need to be able to be isolated). But I also think there needs to be a CR (between DR and UR) and a CL area. There needs to be a high cross for dance numbers. One of the high crosses must come across center to light a line of actors (think Seasons of Love from RENT). Then I am trying to add concert backgrounds (it is a cabaret type show, lots of musical numbers with talking in between). So I was hoping to fit in a blue fanned back light, a red straight back, an amber high side back angled in, two purple back lights, a light blue high back cross at CC, a green low back, and a couple of patterns.

You see my issue. I have been over this with some great LDs and gotten a myriad of responses (from screw the people on the extremes and hang a modified McCandiss to get the color you need all the way to put in your front light and then just take what is left for color even if you only get one wash out of it).

So what do you guys think?

Mike

First you're thinking about way too much like a prosc theatre. What you're calling backlight will be side light for 2/3's of the audience. Your 3point front light also serves as side and back light depending on where your sitting. Your first job as L D is visibility, don't sacrifice that. If you have budget to rent look for som scrollers, if not prioritize the color, and remember that down light is the only angle that will be the same for the entire audience.
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[Esoteric]

Yes Grog I know that each person has a different view of the same lights. But I have to use those terms to describe the placement of the lights. I used to rep design for a company that occupied a thrust space, but I have never done a Cabaret type show in one. In addition I know the functions of lighting design but visibility means different things to different people. For example I have lit entire scenes in an R80 down wash. So I dont believe that it is necessary for me to drop 18 units and do a complete 3 point front light plot before I do anything else. I was wondering if anyone had creative suggestions on how to fill using less lights. For example I once did an upstage facing front for each area (9 total) and then used 1 fill per side for 3 areas, so that I did 9 areas in 15 lights instead of 27. In this show the color and patterns are at least as important as the front light. It is more concert and less play.

Mike

 

[Grog12]

Yes Grog I know that each person has a different view of the same lights. But I have to use those terms to describe the placement of the lights. I used to rep design for a company that occupied a thrust space, but I have never done a Cabaret type show in one. In addition I know the functions of lighting design but visibility means different things to different people. For example I have lit entire scenes in an R80 down wash. So I dont believe that it is necessary for me to drop 18 units and do a complete 3 point front light plot before I do anything else. I was wondering if anyone had creative suggestions on how to fill using less lights. For example I once did an upstage facing front for each area (9 total) and then used 1 fill per side for 3 areas, so that I did 9 areas in 15 lights instead of 27. In this show the color and patterns are at least as important as the front light. It is more concert and less play.

Mike

Mike, I'm not trying to belittle you, just workin with what you give me. That being said, you need the FL from all 3 sides, but if its not so important then don't do a single light for every area. Make it a front wash as opposed to front area light, don't do 18 lights, do 9 and use a larger degree or lens.

 

[thatactorguy]

How about running them at approximately 30-45 degree angles, or in the clock view- with US being 12:00- SL between 4:00 & 5:00 and SR between 7:00 & 8:00? Just a thought...

 

[rochem]

If you guys had to take a 3 point plot (for a thrust) and drop it down to 2 points, which point would you drop? How would you shift the lights? I think I have a plan, but I thought I would ask around.

I feel your pain. I just finalized the plot about an hour ago for a thrust show I'm designing, and had to face some inventory issues as well. I don't know if this will help very much depending on what kind of show you're doing, but I'll throw out my method anyways. My original plan called for 6 or 9 areas over the entire stage, each with 4 front lights (coming in from 1:30, 4:30, 7:30, and 10:30, alternating cool and warm), and a two or three color full-stage top wash, with a bunch of specials mixed in. After realizing that this would eat up my inventory very quickly, I totally changed my style. I abandoned the "area" idea, and basically layered lots of specials on top of eachother. I have two full-stage "washes", which key with a gobo wash and fill from two points, and I have a three-color top wash. Other than that, everything is specials. I just went through the script and saw where I needed to isolate a scene or an actor, and then added it into the plot.

Would that work for you? So rather than splitting up your stage into so many areas, just have one or two full washes, over which you lay in some specials to pick actors out. Obviously whether this would work depends a lot on the script and how the show is blocked, but it might be something to look into.

How about running them at approximately 30-45 degree angles, or in the clock view- with US being 12:00- SL between 4:00 & 5:00 and SR between 7:00 & 8:00? Just a thought...

This is my other suggestion. Have two fronts coming in at 4:00 and 8:00, so they make a little less than a 90* angle with eachother. Since the audience is usually closer to the stage in thrust, a strong toplight should be able to fill in the shadows around the center of the face enough for the audience to still make out facial expressions. It's obviously not ideal, but it may work.

Let us know what you end up deciding on - I'm rather curious to see how this works out.

 

[Esoteric]

I basically did a mixed approach of my old way and what you guys are talking about. I ended up doing a 6 area "key" light from a 45 degree angle, and then did a 4 unit "fill" from the other side. Then I did a back fill with 3 units. Then I ended up adding a straight side light (for the dance numbers).

I will post pics later.

Mike

 

[Esoteric]

Okay so here are the pics. It turned out well I think. These are unedited pics. And yes, I know the set was not finished yet. *lol*

Mike

 

[shiben]

I think it looks pretty cool... I dont really notice any significant issues. Question tho... are people all at tables or something around the space? It looked like that in one of the pics.

 

[Esoteric]

Yup, the audience is seated at tables (a la Cabaret).

Mike

 

[Esoteric]

But the Director directed about 80% of the play in lines instead of diagonals. Drove me nuts.

Mike