To mic or not to mic.

[MilesDenison]

Purely out of curiosity, when do you guys make the call that it isn't worth throwing individual mics on everybody, and go purely on their ability to project or a smattering of shotguns and condensers?

I've been running show after show after show for the last two months, starting to run out of time and energy to go through and write cues in, program them, build a majority of the set, and rehearse with the groups. When do start triage and make the call that mics really aren't a necessity?

 

[chausman]

(This coming from a person who spends most of their time doing sound for CYT [kids])

I think it depends on a lot of things. Specifically, how big is the space your trying to fill, how many people are you planning on having attend, and age/ability of performers. When we do shows in our 700+ seat venue, we almost have to use Mics. Especially for musicals. If we are doing shows in our 300 seat venue, doing non-musicals, we usually hold off on using Mics, except for the much younger /quieter kids. Having younger kids, and professional singers who know how to really belt it out are quite different.

 

[Stookeybrd]

I can appreciate your position as a full time student involved with more than just the Sound of each show, but the answer to your question is, it depends.

What does the Sound Designer and the Director want to do? Are they looking for an intimate on-stage-seating performance, or is this going to be a show that sells out a 500 seat theater every single night, because those are very different beasts and cannot be dealt with using the same tools. Pick your battles because it is absolutely true that most shows do not need actors to be mic'd. Find where your time is best spent and the show can most benefit from the usage of mics. If the show is extremely hard to mix and has hundreds of cues, and the Engineer doesn't have enough time to learn the shows and is missing pick-ups, consider not using mics at all; if you're in the position to do so, make that call before rehearsals. A great example is God of Carnage on Broadway only used area mics and ended up winning Best Play and got nominations for all four of the actors using their projection(they were yelling at each other quite often). So, they aren't always necessary to create a great production.

 

[cpf]

It really depends on the performers and the theatre. Most of the theatre people who come through my venue are professionals and sound great without mics. The multiple high school&youth shows, however, are fully mic-ed (390 seats).


So I guess my advice would be to get some people to sit at the back of the room in question and evaluate the sound without microphones for a few scenes. If the actors are trying hard to project and it still isn't cutting it, then microphones it is.

 

[chausman]

Another thing to add would be, if your having a hard time keeping up with them, instead of moving straight to Mics, you. Ud try working on teaching actors to PROJECT! Either by teaching them yourself, or finding someone else.

 

[DrPinto]

I try to avoid wireless mics at all costs, even the hand-helds. Students should have the ability to project enough for the floor mics or overhead mics to pick them up. Sometimes this isn't the case. If I get a middle school student that hasn't been taught how to properly project his/her voice and I'm doing a musical, I many end up going wireless.

I can do this only because most of the auditoriums I work in are fairly small. If I'm in a space with a large stage, I might be more inclined to go wireless more often.

 

[museav]

Purely out of curiosity, when do you guys make the call that it isn't worth throwing individual mics on everybody, and go purely on their ability to project or a smattering of shotguns and condensers?

I've been running show after show after show for the last two months, starting to run out of time and energy to go through and write cues in, program them, build a majority of the set, and rehearse with the groups. When do start triage and make the call that mics really aren't a necessity?

I approach it the other way, when do you make the call to mic someone? The default should be to not mic and microphones in any form should only be used when necessary.

It really depends on the performers and the theatre. Most of the theatre people who come through my venue are professionals and sound great without mics. The multiple high school&youth shows, however, are fully mic-ed (390 seats).

So how does one get from the high school and youth show performer needing microphones to a pro who does not? When in the education and training process should one learn to project? Might people assume someone else will deal with that aspect later only for it to never be addressed? Does this perhaps reflect an emphasis on the performance quality rather than the educational aspect?

 

[JonasA]

I'm not a professional, so my views here are probably going to vary a bit from others, but:

In the past few years at my school, we've tried to cut down from radio mics and move towards just using shotguns (note that this is all the budget will stretch to). More than half the time, if you can't hear the kid with no amplification, a shotgun won't help them much in our auditorium. This year I had such a terrible time with our first show that I just hired in radio mics for the second one and was brutal about who had them ("Two lines? No mic. Whole solo? Well, I'll consider it...").

All up, my preference is to mic them individually. At least with amateur board ops, it usually means a better pickup, better sound quality and more control over not hearing the kids who are whispering next to a shotgun. You also have the marked advantage in that you can only do the ones who sing well, and then you can drown out the out-of-tune droners when mixing. Again, it's a high school point of view.

 

[dannymusic]

The music volume has to be considered and ages of performers. High School kids are too inconsistent and must be individually mic. Alot of bands/orch have been on stage for more modern shows and get loud.

Parents want to hear their kids.


BUT, bad mics are 10x worse then no mics. 1 crackling mic will counter 12 good working ones.

 

[pmolsonmus]

By order of preference: No mics, boundary mics, wireless. I recently did a musical revue this time with 80 middle school students in a 700 seat house with balcony and had 4 wireless at my discretion. I used them only for soloists/duets who needed them (about 5-6 times in a 25 song revue).
I was able to get enough gain with downstage mics and taught them how to project (I'm also a choral director) and (just as important) the correct blocking to get them to cheat to an audience, instead of delivering sound to the wings and facing each other.

A side note, I have NEVER had much success using the proverbial PCCs that many theaters use. I don't like the tone and can never get enough gain in the spaces that I work in. I have taken to using shorties (mic stands) and putting SDC's or even LDCs (AKG 414's work great - a trick I learned from opera) or both across the front. A few hanging mics or shotguns take care of the ensemble if the ensemble has good choral technique. (i.e...Non legato singing with clipped consonants and separation as you would with an orchestra.

Granted they are not as visually discrete as the PCCs but I'll take good sound over all the problems with wireless, phase issues, mixing w/ non mic'd members, etc... and by the second song they won't be noticed if the show's any good.

YMMV
Phil

 

[DrPinto]

By order of preference: No mics, boundary mics, wireless. I recently did a musical revue this time with 80 middle school students in a 700 seat house with balcony and had 4 wireless at my discretion. I used them only for soloists/duets who needed them (about 5-6 times in a 25 song revue).
I was able to get enough gain with downstage mics and taught them how to project (I'm also a choral director) and (just as important) the correct blocking to get them to cheat to an audience, instead of delivering sound to the wings and facing each other.

A side note, I have NEVER had much success using the proverbial PCCs that many theaters use. I don't like the tone and can never get enough gain in the spaces that I work in. I have taken to using shorties (mic stands) and putting SDC's or even LDCs (AKG 414's work great - a trick I learned from opera) or both across the front. A few hanging mics or shotguns take care of the ensemble if the ensemble has good choral technique. (i.e...Non legato singing with clipped consonants and separation as you would with an orchestra.

Granted they are not as visually discrete as the PCCs but I'll take good sound over all the problems with wireless, phase issues, mixing w/ non mic'd members, etc... and by the second song they won't be noticed if the show's any good.

YMMV
Phil

Just wondering if you could tell me what an "SDC" and "LDC" microphone is. Nothing came up on a CB search. I even Googled "SDC", but I don't think it means "Swingers Date Club".

 

[derekleffew]

Guessing here, not universally used terms:
SDC=small diameter cardioid condenser
LDC=large diameter cardioid condenser (aka AKG 414)

 

[waynehoskins]

SDC = Small Diaphragm Condenser, usually 1" or less diameter, like SM81
LDC = Large Diaphragm Condenser, usually 2" or larger, like C414

 

[pmolsonmus]

The terms aren't universal in theater but pretty universal in the recording world. I also moderate at recording.org in the vocal booth forum.
The answers above are correct.

Phil

 

[DrPinto]

SDC = Small Diaphragm Condenser, usually 1" or less diameter, like SM81
LDC = Large Diaphragm Condenser, usually 2" or larger, like C414

Gotcha. Besides a bunch of PCC-160 mics and a couple of shotguns, I don't own any other condensers. They're just too expensive and delicate.

I usually have 3 PCC-160 mics across the front of the stage. I'm not excited with the results, but it gets the job done. For my next show, I'm going to try reversing the polarity of the center mic to see if that makes a difference.

 

[museav]

I usually have 3 PCC-160 mics across the front of the stage. I'm not excited with the results, but it gets the job done. For my next show, I'm going to try reversing the polarity of the center mic to see if that makes a difference.

Well, you probably won't hear anyone located halfway between the center and outer mics. Other than that it will likely just make frequencies that summed between two mics cancel instead and vice versa, whether that is beneficial or not you'll have to judge.

 

[TimmyP1955]

We have a lot of gak spill back onto the stage. As such, the PCC160s are good for those who aren't projecting and just need a little bump for intelligibility. However for those who are just plain wimpy, the floor mics aren't much help.