Automated Fixtures What has training come to?

[LXPlot]

Not that I'm saying everyone SHOULD take apart a mover, I got to just change a couple gobos in a VL1000 yesterday, and that was very interesting to see the insides of one of them. I doubt that it will change how I program, but it is nice to know those things.

How'd you get such an awesome gig? Lucky...

Anyway, I'd like to say that if somebody asked me to open an ML, my response would be the same as your L2. My school and/or workplace just hasn't invested in MLs, and instead we have a very nice collection of conventionals. Rather then going to do the job (I have seen MLs opened before, just not very often), I would ask something like "Do you have a diagram or something, I've never used these particular fixtures before?" I would much rather be seen as somebody with little experience than as the idiot who broke the moving light.

On the other hand, my experience currently is largest in programming, so maybe I'm not the best example.

 

[SteveB]

I suppose I should've added in that I do a combination of live events and corporate shows as opposed to theatre (not that I haven't done theatre or won't go back). On my events the LD is the programmer and sometimes the op as well. So the LD pretty much needs to be able do whatever needs to be done onsite.

I guess I should factor in that a theatre LD is rather different than a concert lighting director. But of several LDs I know (a few in corporate, and one who's in USA as an LD), all of them at least know the basics of how a moving light works and 2 could certainly pass as a ML tech (event though they've never done that beyond maintaining fixtures on their shows).

There is no expectation that every well rounded LD (as in Director, not Designer) is going to have a strong knowledge in ML repair. Nor that the few that do are going to have a strong background in Ethernet distribution. Thus I doubt that the LD's you know could walk into a rental shop tomorrow and fill in for any of the staff that does ML repairs daily. Much of what we do requires very specific knowledge and it's somewhat impossible to know it all, as much as some folks claim. Thus there are specialists. Even the rental shop has folks that specialize in ML service, while others do consoles, etc...

As example, a very close friend and graduate of the college I work at, is a much in demand GrandMA programmer, one of the best in the business in the US currently. Mike wouldn't know a thing about what to fix if he opened up a VL3500. He does know the MA backwards and that is what he is hired for, to program. There are others that deal with the system and fixtures and that's how it should be. Another BC Grad and friend is a top NY based TV gaffer. Just did the Elton John/Leon at the Beacon concert. This Mike told me last year that he hasn't a clue about console programming, nor Ethernet distro. He hires guys that do. His specialty is getting the system planned out and installed. He hires specialists for specific needs while he deals with the overall.

I do "some" maintenance on my Studio Spots, but since I only own 6 I don't put a lot of emphasis on the knowledge required to service them and won't tackle anything beyond belt tightening and will send the fixture out to others that know better. Does that make me a poor LD ?, hardly. I just don't need to know certain esoteric and specific things that others know better and to whom I refer to when needed.

And as a BTW, none of the folks I mentioned learned their current skill sets in college (myself included). They (we) learned the basics and most importantly learned how to LEARN. Which is how we all adapt to new technologies.

 

[mstaylor]

I personally have no college training, although I have come in and advised more than one MFA instructor how to fix or operate their gear. Among my areas of expertise is planning and setting up rigs. Then I assemble and troubleshoot. Rarely do I program anything, I am needed to be free in case something weird screws up, I can fix it while others are programing. Interestingly enough, any movers are rented so the tech from the rental company fixes them. I have been known to hang out with him so I can learn but it isn't my area.

 

[Footer]

I'm with Steve, Derek, and Alex on this one.

Heres how I fix a moving light... put it back in its case and hang the spare the shop sent over. I then call the shop and tell them I have a dead unit. Thats it. When I worked at one venue that owned movers, I sent it into the shop down the road to get repaired. As large as an investment moving lights are IF you own them, its not worth it to sit there and bang on them if you don't know them in and out. Thats why we have shops. Now, if your out our tour and have a case full of parts and know what you are doing... go nuts. Added to that, you really should not be having to repair lights for a one off that you rented from a shop. If they sent you crap gear and no spare, then you have a larger issue. If they sent you a spare, use it. Otherwise, you have the possibility of destroying the fixture more then it currently was and getting a 3,000 dollar charge when you settle.

Added to that, there is no reason to tie up one of my guys onstage to fix something like that. If I have one of my guys spend an hour fixing a light, I have not only lost a guy for an hour but I also paid someone twice as much as shop time to fix it. The promoter is paying for gear to be fixed that they are renting that should be in working order anyway. I am losing a guy because the gear that should be in working order is not working. All in all, its a lose lose. Swap it, case it, write NFG on it, continue on with the call.

And I'm not even going to touch the "every tech should know....." thing.

 

[photoatdv]

I never said you need to know how to rip one apart. I said VERY BASIC troubleshooting. I consider that stuff like making sure nothing's wiggled loose and checking for mechanical obstructions-- usually a wire hitting something (both, at least in my life, are fairly common). Other than those two the biggest thing I end up doing is physically homing a wheel when there's a bad sensor (not that I'm advocating doing this without knowing what your doing, as there may be some lights that that would cause problems on, and there are definitely some it won't work on).

I said know how they work and what major parts are.

 

[DuckJordan]

I never said you need to know how to rip one apart. I said VERY BASIC troubleshooting. I consider that stuff like making sure nothing's wiggled loose and checking for mechanical obstructions-- usually a wire hitting something (both, at least in my life, are fairly common). Other than those two the biggest thing I end up doing is physically homing a wheel when there's a bad sensor (not that I'm advocating doing this without knowing what your doing, as there may be some lights that that would cause problems on, and there are definitely some it won't work on).

I said know how they work and what major parts are.

I still say that the only thing you should ever need to know about the inside is lamp replacement everything else takes too much time and should be sent to the shop or taken down and done a different day. There is almost no reason to do it in the air period. Even on the rigs that have a box of spare parts they still pull em down replace the unit and fix the unit on the ground after hang and flash. And its done by someone who's sole job other than hang/focus is to fix them.

Even lamp replacement doesn't need to be known by every tech.

The list for what all tech's should know is way too venue / job specific and not one tech should need to know anything other than basic safety everything else is job specific.

I wouldn't expect a carp to know how to program a lighting console like the GrandMA but I also wouldn't expect a Programmer to know how to build a set of stairs. Granted they are good to know but just because your a technician doesn't mean you know how to do it.

On lighting calls I'm just happy when they know which way tightens a bolt and which way loosens. Anything else I'm happy to teach/Do for them. That's why I get paid the higher amounts is the ability to know exactly how to do certain things.

As a Designer I know how to trouble shoot basic things. But anything more than looking at a problem or replacing a lamp or a connector meant to be connected/disconnected by the end user is the max I'll do during hang or focus. I'm lucky I'm in a program that has movers that are old enough to encounter issues such as old belts and other things that would happen after years of use.

 

[VL5]

"The list for what all tech's should know is way too venue / job specific and not one tech should need to know anything other than basic safety everything else is job specific".


I totally agree with this statement, Some jobs I walk in on I only need to touch the board, thats it, where other jobs I need to direct a crew, set up the show, troubleshoot, program the console and take it all back down. I guess this is one of the reasons I can do 18 hour day after 18 hour on the weekends even when im in high school because just when your ready to start kicking the floor package you know the next day you'll have new challenges, new crew, a new plot (unless your on tour) and a whole new environment.

 

[David Ashton]

there's two worlds out there, one where most of you guys live, with LDs, riggers, technicians and every other job.
The other world has one guy and a truck 100s of miles from the nearest shop, this guy is the truck driver, rigger, LD, board operator and maintenance technician.
A 1 day Martin course will cost around $100 and will teach you all the basic techniques which solve or at least identify problems.
I have lived in both worlds, I prefer the latter, much more interesting and challenging and fun.
Being versatile has meant never, ever being out of work, unlike many specialists, and never bored.
However high up the food chain you may be, knowing the practicalities and limitations of gear is only ever going to help do your job better.
The incredible resources now available on line now make learning so incredibly easy, and I have to say many graduates of academic institutions spend 3-4 years and come out practically useless for real life work.

 

[JChenault]

<Curmudgeon>
On the other hand, I think that there is a tendency for folks to be afraid of tinkering, opening it up and seeing what it looks like these days. If something is not working with my ML's, ( or my dimmers) and it is convenient to do so, I have no problems with opening up the unit and seeing if there is something that is obviously wrong. Usually I don't see anything and have to take it in to the tech. But I always learn something about how the thing works ,<Curmudgeon>

 

[gafftaper]

Trying to cut back to the heart of the question:

1) Knowing about movers should be a part of an lighting student's education, however it's not nearly as important to most of us as we think it is. We see big touring Broadway shows and the latest U2 tour with lots of movers and we think, "That's what theater is like". But those are the exception, they are not the norm. The VAST majority of theater companies out there do NOT own more than two movers... most don't own any. Our LORT theater here in Seattle... probably the biggest budget theater north of San Francisco... doesn't own any movers. Why? Because they are too expensive and not all that useful for the majority of their productions (discussing this with their TD years ago was a key conversation that lead to the Gafftaper Method's creation). When they need one they rent one, but most of the time they don't need them. They've got scrollers, rotators, and I-cues. I would bet a lot of money that the number of events run on an ancient Colortran board or a little NSI 2 scene preset vastly outnumber the number of shows that use movers. For most of us it's far more important to know basic theory. Most of us will spend a lot of years working in community theater or some fringe theater in an old restaurant. How many of us will actually end up working for Cirque, Broadway, or tour with Rhino? Most of us won't. The need for most of us is to to master theory of design and programming. Theory that can be applied and adapted to the environment and budget of our future theaters.

2) Most colleges/universities simply can't afford movers. When you consider this in light of point #1 above, movers become a low priority. Most schools are fighting to just keep their faculty and production budget. As far as I know, there is only one University in this state with a fairly large collection of movers. Most schools have something like 4 old Technobeams which they are running on an old Obsession. There's no way their budgets can possibly keep up with the latest technology. So they do their best to teach theory which can be applied across the board.

So "What has training come to?" For the most part training is teaching the same things it always has. Yeah it would be great if we could all be trained in welding a set together and maintaining lots of movers. But the need isn't there to justify it and the budgets just aren't there to support it. So we teach a lot of theory and do our best to augment it with hands on like programming a few old movers and welding a prop.

Finally I want highlight one key point that Icewolf mentioned. Many of the really cool theater employers like to have people who are well trained, have a short resume of good experiences, and aren't over trained and set in their ways. They love quality people that they can train and mold into their system.

 

[jglodeklights]

If I'm going to be an ME in a theater with 40 moving lights, then I would expect that I would have gone to receive training in how to properly program them, at least. If I have need to repair them myself (they are out of warranty and I can not get easy service on them), then I will go and get certified in how to repair my moving lights.

If I'm an ME in a building that will never see a moving light except a scroller, why would I need to get this certification?

If I'm an LD that will work at a level of theater that has/rents movers, then I will learn how they can be designed/programmed, and by default the capabilities of the console that will be controlling them.

If I'm an LD that will work at a level of theater that never uses them, why would I learn how to design/program them? I will learn the full capabilities of the console I use, but ML's, why would I need to.

Echoing my previous statements in Art Vs. Tech, it is all about scale.

 

[photoatdv]

Without going into tons of details, I guess I work in a really strange corner of this industry. Most all of the guys I work with over 30 to 35 know the tech side of stuff (moving lights was what sparked this, but same for dimmers, consoles, ect), yet most of the ones in the 20 to 25 range haven't a clue. I know some of this is a matter of experience, but I feel like not all of it is.

I also find it interesting that out of the older (30+) full time pros that I know and work with that nearly all of them know ML troubleshooting and semi-regularly do it yet few of the pros on here do. Now out of the average 20-25 year old techs I get about the same "don't know"/ "call the shop" / "why would I need to know that" that several people here have expressed. Of course the same tends to go for stuff like tie-ins, soldering, ect.

So maybe my frustration is that the artistic lighting designers are trying to be MEs and lighting directors in a very technical and jack-of-all-trades niche of the industry.

 

[DuckJordan]

Without going into tons of details, I guess I work in a really strange corner of this industry. Most all of the guys I work with over 30 to 35 know the tech side of stuff (moving lights was what sparked this, but same for dimmers, consoles, ect), yet most of the ones in the 20 to 25 range haven't a clue. I know some of this is a matter of experience, but I feel like not all of it is.

I also find it interesting that out of the older (30+) full time pros that I know and work with that nearly all of them know ML troubleshooting and semi-regularly do it yet few of the pros on here do. Now out of the average 20-25 year old techs I get about the same "don't know"/ "call the shop" / "why would I need to know that" that several people here have expressed. Of course the same tends to go for stuff like tie-ins, soldering, ect.

So maybe my frustration is that the artistic lighting designers are trying to be MEs and lighting directors in a very technical and jack-of-all-trades niche of the industry.

You said it in your post here, Experience. The guys 30+ have probably worked the jobs that have had them sent out to get the service training for movers, They've also had companies pay to train tie ins and other things.

Most Colleges and university's won't allow even grad students to do tie ins, So in the case of that it shouldn't be that uncommon.

Think of it this way, If you owned a company and had the money to send one of your employee's to get trained on the inner functions of a moving light, but you had two choices: The young college upstart probably just doing this to get his name out to hopefully move on to more pay and better work? Or the older guy who has been with your company for a while and doesn't have the degree to go somewhere else? Personally I wouldn't send the college student just based on the fact as its an investment in someone when they are going to be leaving when they get the chance.

 

[MarshallPope]

As I was reading through this thread, an analogy came to mind: doctors. Would you go to your general practitioner or chiropractor and ask them to do brain surgery on you? No, that's not what they are there for. Likewise, you probably wouldn't ask your neurosurgeon to fix your back. To me, programmer/whatever else is a completely different field from repair tech. If you know enough to cross over when needed, great, but I don't see one necessarily needing to know how to do the work of the other.

 

[gafftaper]

Just pointing out a reoccurring theme from the education forum. Those 30+ guys have had to do all those different things to keep a steady income coming in over the years. Do your best to experience as many different aspects of technical theater in school and in your early years of professional work. Yes you want to specialize and become a "brain surgeon" eventually, but the more jobs you are qualified to do the more likely you are to get regular work.

 

[MrsFooter]

Reading the OP, I can't help but be reminded of my first ever summer stock. It was at a larger theatre, (with a plethora of moving heads, I might add,) and I was freshly graduated from college where I'd majored in (get this) dance. Sure, I'd taken a few tech classes, but the majority of my skills and knowledge was learned from practical applications and as I went. I was GREEN. And holy crap, did I make some dumbass mistakes. Ran a cable backwards, mistakenly thought that the color of the screws inside an edison connector were arbitrary and put them in whatever order I liked, accidentally replaced a male connector with a female connector, etc. But you know what the great thing was? No one made me feel bad for these mistakes. No matter how asinine the screw up, they pointed out the mistake, corrected me, gave me some hints or advice, and made me fix it. And you know what? I only ran cable backwards once, because someone had taken the time to help me learn without belittling me. And because they didn't belittle me or make me feel bad, I gained not only skills and knowledge, but confidence in myself.

I am now in a leadership position where I work with people everyday who aren't exactly the A team. Some of them are super young and green, some of them are general stagehands who aren't well versed in electrics specifically, and some of them are people who've just never performed that task before. I NEVER begrudge them for not knowing how to do something. I begrudge them for being lazy, I begrudge them for having a bad attitude, I begrudge them for claiming to have a specific skill when they do not, but I never begrudge them for saying, "I've never done that before." (Not that most of the people I work with are lazy with bad attitudes, but if they were.) Until the day that I've seen absolutely EVERYTHING that there is to see and come across EVERY possible scenario in existence, (and I hope that day never comes, since, after all, isn't that what makes this industry fun,) I am in no position to look down on someone for having never done something, and neither, in my opinion, is anyone else.

 

[NevilleLighting]

I'm with Steve, Derek, and Alex on this one.

Heres how I fix a moving light... put it back in its case and hang the spare the shop sent over. I then call the shop and tell them I have a dead unit.

Footer, I see you went to the Neville School of Automation Repair. To fix a mover I usually only use three tools. A DMX tester, a meter and a phone. After I confirm that the light has juice and signal and is patched correctly I call someone that understands the inside thingies.

I don't feel bad about this. My skills lie elsewhere. I believe that the old jack-of-all-trades model is extinct. I also believe that the more knowledge you have, the better. A set designer friend of mine designs a lot of high-end corporate events. As he puts it, he needs to know a little of everything but be an expert in nothing. His expertise is in finding the right expert.

I'm trained as a classical, Broadway style lighting designer. I need to know the basics of how a mover functions and the intricacies of its capabilities and how to cue it. I need to know enough to keep up with technology from a design side. Ask me to repair your dimmer and I'll be glad to hold the flashlight for you while you do it. Ask me to design a 600 unit plot with two dozen movers, 5 spot ops and two board ops and get that from load-in to opening in six days for a musical with 30 scenes, 15 sets and 500 cues and I'm your guy. We all have our niches of expertise and our wider range of knowledge. I know my limits and respect those that know what I don't. I don't judge others that don't do what I do. They do other things much better than I can.

 

[BillESC]

I started in 1965, before movers, scanners, scrollers and computerized controllers. I can strip a leko and rebuild it as fast as a marine can do the same with a M1.

Our industry as with most others has become compartmentalized. Know a position (job) and do it well, you'll make a nice living. You'll find few well versed in all aspects of a particular art form.

 

[zmb]

Our industry as with most others has become compartmentalized. Know a position (job) and do it well, you'll make a nice living. You'll find few well versed in all aspects of a particular art form.

I could see that at the professional level, but at school and community levels I think the be better at something but still useful elsewhere approach would be best. For example, give me some lights and I can design a show but don't expect me to design and build a set with a pile of lumber. However if you tell me to cut here and there and screw this to that, then I will build something.

 

[shiben]

I could see that at the professional level, but at school and community levels I think the be better at something but still useful elsewhere approach would be best. For example, give me some lights and I can design a show but don't expect me to design and build a set with a pile of lumber. However if you tell me to cut here and there and screw this to that, then I will build something.

Oh thats an easy one tho. You take the pile of lumber, dump it on stage, and paint it black. Voila, a set!

(we can fix it with light, right?)