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what to take...

Discussion in 'Sound, Music, and Intercom' started by w3st0n21, May 15, 2009.

  1. w3st0n21

    w3st0n21 Active Member

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    Location:
    Richmond, Va
    there is a possiblity that i will be setting up and running sound for a kids camp sponsored by my church. i havnt ever set a PA system for a band by myself before and i need to make sure i dont forget anything when i go. does anyone have a list of equipment needed for a 5 person band (2 vocals, 2 guitars, bass, drums).
     
  2. Footer

    Footer Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

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    What do you have available? What size of room?

    Right now, it could be anything from 20 box line arrays to a fender passport system.
     
  3. w3st0n21

    w3st0n21 Active Member

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    the gear is supplied by the church. we have mackie actives, jbl eons for speakers, several choices for mixers...i have no idea how big the room is because i havnt ever been there, but i do know that there will be 70 kids and 30 "staff". this is my list so far...
    Microphones:
    -4 SM57s (1 snare, 2 amps, 1 extra)
    -3 SM58s (2 vocals, 1 extra)
    -1 wireless handheld (announcements/lesson)
    -kick drum (kick drum, duh)
    -overhead (drum kit)

    “On stage”:
    -3 direct boxes (guitars, keyboard, iPod)
    -5 instrument cables (guitars, bass, extras)
    -2 long instrument cables (guitars to amps)

    Speakers:
    - 3 mackies (Mains, monitor/extra for outdoor activities)
    - 3-4 JBLs (monitors)
    - 1 mackie sub (small)
    Amps:
    - 2 guitar (for guitar)
    - 1 bass (for bass onstage)

    Cables:
    - 75 foot snake
    - 15-20 20 foot XLR cables
     
  4. rdagit

    rdagit Member

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    It looks like your're pretty well set up... I'd say that if you have eon's your probably in a small space, which means it might be overkill to mic the drummer, IDK, depends on the space but I've found a lot of people like to mic the drummer when it's not necessarily needed...

    My only suggestion is to make sure you have extra cable on hand, you'll be suprised how easy you'll need cable, and I'm guessing "instrument cable" is 1/4-1/4 for the DI boxes... Also, don't forget any mic stands that you may need... The drumms will alll need one, as well as vocal stands... Some people like midget stands for the guitar amps, personally I like the tieline approach, but that's just me..
     
  5. epimetheus

    epimetheus Well-Known Member

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    Occupation:
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    When I worked in the theater department at A&M, somebody thought up these great little Z-bars for mic'ing guitar/bass amps. Basically it's a 2" x 1/8" x 24" aluminum bar bent into a zig-zag shape. Mount a mic clip on one end and stick the other end under the amp handle, or between the amp and the speaker cabinet, or under the amp, etc.
     
  6. avkid

    avkid Not a New User Fight Leukemia

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    What kind of a place is this camp, summer camp or campground?
    If it's an ACA camp I might be able to get you more info.
     
  7. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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  8. BillESC

    BillESC Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Only thing I see missing from your list is asprin.
     
  9. museav

    museav CBMod CB Mods Departed Member

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    Occupation:
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    I would say that the equipment may be the least of your worries. All the equipment in the world doesn't matter if it is not properly applied. In fact, the less you can get by with might be better.

    If you have not seen the facility, try to do so. From the stage to the listener area to the acoustical environment, there are many factors of the space that might affect what is the proper equipment. Also, sketch out how you plan to setup the system in advance. The better a plan you have walking in, the easier it will be and the fewer chances of not having something you need. You might even want to mock up the system before the event just to make sure everything works and that you have all the cables, adapters, etc. that you might need.

    You mentioned two guitars and bass and for the DIs note a quantity of three but you identify the DIs also being for keyboards and iPod. There seemed to be some discrepancy in the application and/or quantity. For example, how is the bass getting into the system or does it run through the system at all?

    Don't forget speaker and mic stands. And of course plenty of extra cables, gaff tape, markers, basic tools, etc. Also think of how you are going to get power to all the speakers and amp (another place that some planning and a mock up ahead of time can potentially help).
     
  10. w3st0n21

    w3st0n21 Active Member

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    cool thanks guys. regarding the bass. we will have a bass amp with and XLR output in the back as a direct out. the reason for the DI boxes is just accounting for any extra thing we might end up having and or problems with other equipment. ok question about micing amps. i dont know if we will have an isolated quiet area to put them that is off stage. is it okay to mic them onstage?
     
  11. w3st0n21

    w3st0n21 Active Member

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    oh and about the camp i believe its land that was donated to our church so its essentially our own camp. and i am only 14 so i dont the asprin will be necessary
     
  12. 3dB

    3dB Member

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    Location:
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    Don't think you'll have any problems serving 100 people with the Mackie pair. Am I right to assume the sub is active as well?

    Assuming the JBL monitors are passive, they will need amplification.

    Yes, you can mic the guitar cabinets onstage if you wish. You could also use the guitar amplifier line outs (assuming they are available) to feed into the system via a couple of your DI boxes. In the latter case, a couple of 10' guitar cables would be appropriate to run from line out to DI box.

    Whether or not you need to mic the drums will depend partially on how large and how live the room is. Since you have the mics, it would be fine to go ahead and mic the drums and then make a judgment during sound check/performance as to whether you need/want them. Even in small rooms, miking the snare or (insert other percussive instrument here) so you can add a little reverb, etc. is sometimes a nice touch.

    What mixers are available?

    Since you haven't had much experience with such, you might seek out some initial help from other area church tech crews that use portable systems. I think most would be happy to help. Also, references such as the Yamaha Guide to Sound Systems for Worship and similar such instructional books (and videos) are helpful. I believe there are also Youtube videos concerning setting up and operating sound systems (just be careful - remember anyone can post to Youtube...).

    I wish you the best. You'll learn a lot. And ... I think I'd go ahead and pack the aspirin...

    Regards,
    Mark
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2009
  13. lieperjp

    lieperjp Well-Known Member

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    You may want to get a shirt that says, "I may be young but I DO know what I am doing." Or a badge. Or a hat...

    And if you don't, pretend you do :). Unless someone's life is in danger, of course...
     
  14. w3st0n21

    w3st0n21 Active Member

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    ok let me clear up any confusion. i DO know what im doing. i have helped set up portable systems before with the help of one of our churchs sound techs. so i know i can do it, i just havnt had that much problem solving experience with sound yet. and yes the subs are active and so are the JBLs. and mixers im not sure what ill be using yet, but the options could be and allen and heath 16 chan. mix wizard (thats our youths board so im not sure if ill be able to get that one, although it would be my 1st choice), a 16 chan. mackie board will most likely be what i end up using, we have a few of those laying around. i need to figure out what rackmount stuff i might take...
     
  15. howlingwolf487

    howlingwolf487 Active Member

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    What about power? You haven't mentioned anything about getting AC out to the place where the concert is. Is it already there? If so, how are you running power to the active speakers? You'll also need to get your FOH power off of the same circuit as the speakers are plugged into (unless you plan on tripping breakers) so you don't have any ground loop issues.

    What about the weather? Do you have tarps to cover the gear should it sart raining? Or is there a pavilion where you are playing?

    Just some more questions to be answered so we can know what's up.

    ;)
     
  16. museav

    museav CBMod CB Mods Departed Member

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    Occupation:
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    The potential issue is that setting up a system, especially for a new space and application, typically goes beyond just knowing how to connect the pieces or even how to run a mixer. Areas such as understanding how mic and monitor selection and placement affect feedback, how speaker placement affects coverage and response and so on may be required. Perhaps you understand all this and are totally capable, but if not please do not shy away from asking for help.

    On a less technical issue, you might want to verify whether the camp has any requirements for insurance, supervision, etc. I know some churches that will not allow any 'outside parties' to setup equipment, run cables and so on unless those parties have the proper qualified personnel, liability insurance, etc. Due simply to the potential legal implications, there may need to be someone 18 or over 'responsible' for the system and its implementation even if you do the work. You hate to think of it happening, but if someone was injured by a falling speaker or tripping over a cable or anything like that, much less if any equipment is damaged or stolen, the reality is that because you are 14 without someone else taking legal responsibility the camp would likely be legally liable. This may not be an issue but I bring it up to identify that if it is, it is nothing personal and simply legalities that have to be considered.
     
  17. w3st0n21

    w3st0n21 Active Member

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    Legaly I understand but the camp is owned and run by our church. And they adults going consulted me because they have seen me around doing sound for other things. And about power and whatnot I am 95% sure the band is inside. We are there for 5 days so I don't think they would put it outside. I am also fairly confident that FOH will be off of the same circuit as the speakers. Is it okay to have the speakers and instrument Amps on the same circuit? I don't know how many they have in the room.
    Thanks for the help so far...
     
  18. TheDonkey

    TheDonkey Active Member

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    Location:
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    I'm no electrician, so I'm not at all sure, but if you have Speakers+Amps+Mixer+Indiv. Instrument Amps running on one circuit, you'd max out the 20Amp load of one circuit, so that may be something to watch for.
     
  19. w3st0n21

    w3st0n21 Active Member

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    FOH and stage will be on different circuits, ill be sure of that. I will take extentions so i can run to ciruits elsewhere if i need too...i am going to try and limit the amount of cables running through house because of the fact that that camp is for elementary aged kids and you know how they are...
     
  20. misterm

    misterm Active Member

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    having worked at camps of various sizes and styles for the past 10 years or so as well as working with a traveling clown/puppetry ministry, my biggest advice to you is this: check the heck out of it. make sure every possible configuration works, that every possible scenario of who is using a mic for what is covered and then some, etc.... Believe me on this. You will check something before hand and it will still backfire for whatever reason. And I absolutely agree about extra cables. you can never have enough cables with you just in case one turns out to be bad or extension cords when whomever is in charge suddenly decides to change the set-up. It does, can, and probably will happen. Bring extra mics, extra batteries, the whole shebang. Do a basic check on the gear before you load it out, then as soon as you load in and set it up. I've been working church stuff since before I can remember (what happens when your dad is the pastor) so I know the boat you're in. Godspeed
     

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