Why won't it light? Troubleshooting conventionals

[dramatech]

Just an aside to the thread.
I purchased two Source four instruments off of ebay, that were almost brand new. I paid next to nothing for them, because they were listed as not working and only good for parts. The problem was the wiring of the stage pin connector, the same as the one shown by crazytechie. The hot lead was connected to ground. Both of the instruments had the power cables cut off at the halfway point, but included in the shipment.

Not being a student, I can't respond to the Questions from Derek, but a clue to the tools that can help troubleshoot: some start with the letters 1)"G" 2)"U" 3)"V" 4)"M". I'm sure that there are many others, but can you name the four that I have indicated?

Tom Johnson

 

[seansbar]

I know the "G" bring it with me at every call. I've even had the wife sew a holder with a belt loop for me.

 

[LXPlot]

My order would be:

1)Check that I brought up the correct channel
2)Check to see if the channel is correct in patch
3)Check to see if the breaker on the dimmer might need to be reset
4)Check Lamp
5)Check dimmer--see if another unit works in same area
6)Check pigtail, internal wiring of unit, etc.

Obviously, if multiple units are not responding, I would react differently

Not being a student, I can't respond to the Questions from Derek, but a clue to the tools that can help troubleshoot: some start with the letters 1)"G" 2)"U" 3)"V" 4)"M". I'm sure that there are many others, but can you name the four that I have indicated?

1) Grenade-Socapex. Lamp tester, real handy and real quick. I should find myself one.

2) Utility Knife. Used for a variety of things, fixing pigtales/plugs, cutting gafftape, etc.

3)Voltmeter is the best I can think of...although I don't know why you would need a multimeter and this.

4)Multimeter. Duh. Doubles as a lamp tester or continuity tester, also could be used for cable testing.

If 3 is voltmeter, than 4 is maglite.

How'd I do?

 

[cdcarter]

Just an aside to the thread.
I purchased two Source four instruments off of ebay, that were almost brand new. I paid next to nothing for them, because they were listed as not working and only good for parts. The problem was the wiring of the stage pin connector, the same as the one shown by crazytechie. The hot lead was connected to ground. Both of the instruments had the power cables cut off at the halfway point, but included in the shipment.

Not being a student, I can't respond to the Questions from Derek, but a clue to the tools that can help troubleshoot: some start with the letters 1)"G" 2)"U" 3)"V" 4)"M". I'm sure that there are many others, but can you name the four that I have indicated?

Tom Johnson

Unsure on U + V, but G sounds a lot like GAMChek, and I'd put money on M being multimeter or mag.

 

[dramatech]

Unsure on U + V, but G sounds a lot like GAMChek, and I'd put money on M being multimeter or mag.

You are correct on both G and M. The privious post was correct on V as Voltmeter. I realize that Voltmeter and Multimeter are a bit redundant, but I was just covering that fact that some people call it a Voltmeter and some a Multimeter. While a Voltmeter is just a portion of a Multimeter, we don't always call items by their exact and correct names. As for the U, I was thinking mostly of electronic testing gear, altough all of the tools mentioned for each letter are pretty good items to have. U is a fairly recent tool specifically design and sold for theatre electricians.
I didn't mean to hijack Derek's question of the day thead, so let's get back to the troubleshooting methods, and order thereof.

Tom Johnson

 

[cdcarter]

You are correct on both G and M. The privious post was correct on V as Voltmeter. I realize that Voltmeter and Multimeter are a bit redundant, but I was just covering that fact that some people call it a Voltmeter and some a Multimeter. While a Voltmeter is just a portion of a Multimeter, we don't always call items by their exact and correct names. As for the U, I was thinking mostly of electronic testing gear, altough all of the tools mentioned for each letter are pretty good items to have. U is a fairly recent tool specifically design and sold for theatre electricians.
I didn't mean to hijack Derek's question of the day thead, so let's get back to the troubleshooting methods, and order thereof.

Tom Johnson

Of course! Ultimate focus tool!

 

[derekleffew]

Of course! Ultimate focus tool!

I never would have gotten that one, and I use mine all the time, as a convenient continuity checker. I was thinking something about unity, which I know, doesn't make any sense.

 

[dramatech]

Of course! Ultimate focus tool!

You are absolutely correct. I love mine, and thought it was just about the greatest, right up until I got my Ultimate flat focus tool. As I have gone through some of the previous threads on focus tools, I realize that I own them all. (You can do that when you are retired, and your hobby is being a theatre tech). I really love both of the Ultimate focus tools, but the flat tool sits in my back pocket so well, that I forget it is there, and have only discovered it's presence as I undress for bed.

Tom Johnson

 

[mstaylor]

+1 on the Flat Focus Tool. I have gotten to the hotel many times to find it in my back pocket.

 

[LXPlot]

Of course! Ultimate focus tool!

Oh! I should've got that!...although I guess I kind of covered continuity tester with the grenade...

 

[techieman33]

Yeah I was confused too, I thought it was 4 different tools for different things, not all for checking power.

 

[itie]

I worked on a movie set once and I spent the day talking to the board opp. He told me that you should check everything on the ground before sending someone up to the fixture. I'm guessing because it cost more time and money to stop and get a guy on the ladder, but it makes sense at least for my school. 90% of the time there is only one or two technicians that can troubleshoot the problem and they are always in the booth. so we usually start with the board then the dimmers since we have to pass them to get to the cat walk.

Thank You
Giovanni

 

[echnaret]

I always checked dimmers last at my college, because they were in the building's mechanical room. The key was in the booth, and the entrance was halfway around the building. You could exit the room near the theatre, but because you needed to check the carbon monoxide detectors before going in, there was only one way you could enter.

In general, I agree that the order is really determined by what is most convenient (and whether the light has previously worked since it was hung).

 

[derekleffew]

...(Z) Maybe a list of all the reasons why a light might not light, ...

That part was a trick question. There is actually only one reason* why an incandescent lamp won't light:
Power is not being conducted through the filament!

This can then be further sub-divided:

1. Power is not getting TO (and from) the filament. (Many reasons why this might be. Most [but not all] of which have been stated.)
2. The filament is broken (non-continuous).

*Let's ignore for this discussion:

• It's an ERS and the shutter s are closed (or a Fresnel with closed barn door s); thus the lamp is working, but we can't tell without being at the fixture.
• It's a well-used archaic lamp, and the tungsten that has deposited on the inside of the envelope has darkened so much that no visible light is being emitted.

-----
It's been a week, so the discussion/question(s) is/are now open to everyone.

 

[mstaylor]

First, I prefer not to touch the light if it is focused. Usually I work with temp systems, concerts or touring theatre rigs. The first thing I do is check the breaker, then hit the test circuit. If it doesn't work then I have eliminated the board and the DMX between the board and dimmers. If it does work, check the patch. Since you are at the dimmers, switch socos to see if the soco in the dimmers works. At the truss, it depends if the lights are hardwired or powered from breakouts or permanant outlets. I switch plugs to see if the light works or test for power. If I have power, then check the plug. My last thing is to change lamps. This is simply to avoid screwing with the focus. If it doesn't matter, if I have power I go to the lamp then the plug. If it is a PAR, the first thing I do when I get the light is check the bottle, then the sugar cube.

 

[derekleffew]

...If it is a PAR, the first thing I do when I get [to] the light is check the bottle, then the sugar cube.

Is this common jargon? Has anyone else ever called it (or heard it called) a sugar cube?

 

[Nelson]

I would say that my approach to this problem would depend on the venue.

When a light fails in our auditorium, I check the lamp first. We've never had a dimmer problem or even tripped a breaker. Wiring is all in good shape as well. The fixtures are also in good shape, so a fixture wiring problem is unlikely. Therefore, I would check whatever seems to be the biggest problem. If you have flaky dimmers, for instance, I'd check them first.

My approach also changes depending on the symptoms. If none of the fixtures light, there's probably something else wrong rather than 50 broken filaments! Or if I have three fixtures on one dimmer and they all quit working at once, I might check the breaker, dimmer, wiring (like two-fers), and control equipment (in that order).

Of course, the very first thing I check is if I turned on the right circuit or brought up the correct cue.

 

[mstaylor]

Is this common jargon? Has anyone else ever called it (or heard it called) a sugar cube?

That is what they call the little block, at least in my area, that has replaced the wire crimps. Also bottle is the porcelain. I find about a 60/40 split between the two, when it isn't the lamp. The other day I had three out, all on seperate socos, it was all soco pin problems.