Wrong use of Far Cyc's?

[CSCTech]

Hello, I am new to this forum, posted here and there.

Anyways,
Our venue has only conventional lighting as of now, looking to slowly expand in the future, anyways, we have a full Colortran setup (Woohoo! ), Personally I have not seen anything bad with Colortran fixtures.
So, we have 16 5/50 Ellipsoidals as FOH spots. (Yay fixed FOH bar with no catwalk..) 10 Theatre Fresnels, 7 Mini Ellipses, and 4 striplights (?) that have no name on them and we are not sure if theya re Colortran or not, they are 6 channels each, each controls two lights inside it. We swap out the gels for different needs, useally used for color mixing.
And then we have 4 Far Cycs.
We do not have a Cyclorama. We use these lights mainly as a flood light for front half of the stage and then for general lighting of the back half of the stage. (We don't useally use the back half as far as performance space goes except for concerts.) To compensate for their wide spread of light theya re tilted a bit. They work great for large spread color mixing, they are 3 channels. There are 3 halogen tubes in each one, so we can put in gels for RGB color.
Anyways, has anyone else heard of these lights being used for above stage lighting instead of Cyc lighting?

We do have an extra batton on a fly, it is the farthest back except for the rear traveler, so I was thinking maybe we used to have a Cyc, but it was damaged or something and removed.

What is a Cyc anyways? Is it some special type of fabric?
Could one be homemade? How much is a real one?

I do not really know how we would connect the lights to dimmers if they were on the ground anyways? As there is no connections on stage level.
Or how do you position lighting for Cycs? I heard the lights go on the ground.
Or would we keep them on the rear electric?

Sorry! I know nothing about Cycs.

 

[mstaylor]

Cycs are made from a variety of materials. They can be a plastered wall or a material drop that is light enough to be lightable, usually white. You can top light, ground light or both. If you ground light and need circuits, you can cable down from your electrics off stage so it isn't seen.
Using cyc lights as fill is common on many stages, usually when designed by somebody who has no clue about proper lighting.

 

[Footer]

If the lights work for you in your configuration, there is nothing wrong with it. The only reason cyc lights are not typically used at area lights is the lack on control. However, if you need a lot of light in a general area and don't care about spill, they work great. I have used them in an FOH position to fill the entire stage and house with highly saturated colors. It works fine. I have even seen them use as audience blinders in a few venues. I have also been in a few TV/Film studios that will use them as area light.

 

[Les]

Many of your (very good) questions can be answered by clicking the yellow links that now appear in your post. This will take you to the excellent CB WIKI.

A cyc can be lit from the top, bottom, or both. The preferred distance from fixture to cyc is between 6-8' and the distance the fixtures are spaced apart should equal the distance to the cyc.

As far as using cyc lights for unconventional uses, if the design calls for it, yes. I have used cyc lights as color washes in lieu of strip lights on one occasion when I designed for Les Mis. Contrary to mstaylor's opinion [he did say usually so I'll give him that ], they worked very well for that show, but I can't think of very many other shows where I would take the same approach. They just had a certain 'look' that worked very well for Les Mis. The main thing is, don't hang a cyc light vertically, as the filament will fail due to the added stress (not designed to be operated that way, thus not supported to do so).

Hope this helps.

PS: A seamless muslin cyc will usually set you back several thousand dollars. One can be made, but make sure it has been treated with flame retardant.

 

[mstaylor]

They probably work very well for concert lighting though.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

I would like to mention that I consider there to be two basic types of lights out there using linear halogen lamps, Cyc's and Broads, the former using an asymmetrical reflector and the latter using a symmetrical reflector, and both of which are descendants of all the Box Floods that came before. Before the Cyc Light there were Scoops (ellipsoidal reflector floods, to be exact) and before that, Box Floods (usually a parabolic or spherical reflector housed in a box with a PS lamp at the focal point) and going all the way back, Olivette's.


I personally see nothing wrong with using a box flood for applications other than lighting a drop. As footer mentioned, they can do wonders with deeply saturated colors. The big fat beam can look amazing with a bit of haze, and their large, even washes are particularly valuable for film and TV. As I firmly believe, every lighting instrument is a paint brush in a lighting designers kit, how they use that paint brush is up to their discretion.

 

[CSCTech]

Alright then, we do use them for washes and for full stage coloring. I wonder if it would be worth making a kind of cyc and hanging it from the extra batten we have, would be like, a sheat with weights on the bottom, but I don't know.
What are cycs used for usually?
Hmm, maybe it would look good for dance recitals.

 

[Les]

Dance shows and suggesting 'sky' are about the most common uses for cyc's that I've seen. It's one of those things where you don't really know what you're missing until you get to effectively use one -- kind of like a scrim or gobos.

 

[CSCTech]

Nice, I will see about getting a little homemade cyc built then. Would only be like a large white sheet, sort of thick, rolled at the bottom with weights to keep it from fluttering around and lit from above. Or other suggestions on homemade ones?

 

[derekleffew]

Optimally, a cyc should be approximately the size of one's proscenium opening or slightly larger, so for most that would be a minimum of 15'h x 30'w. That's a big sheet! While it can contain horizontal seams (vertical seams should never be used), they should be as few as possible and will limit the drop's use to being front lit only. Few amateur stitchers, and even many costume shops, have the space, equipment, and skill to work with such a larger piece of goods.

See Stage Backdrops: Custom Theatrical Backdrops, Theatrical Scenery for standard cyc/backdrop construction. See also the terms tieline, grommet, webbing, muslin, pipe pocket, bottom pipe. Don't try to build one yourself; see http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting/10426-cyclorama-dealers.html for some vendor suggestions.

 

[CSCTech]

Alright, I did't think it would be feasible, but was a suggestion. I'll look for one. Isnt most important thing on our large list of things we need though

 

[shiben]

I dont really know what kind of concerts you do, but you can use cyc lights effectively on black backdrops for some specific types of looks. Its not a cyc in the conventional sense, and it definately does not suggest "Sky", but it is certainly another way to use them. While I was working concerts, a lot of the more "indi" bands we had in worked really well with this sort of tonned black drop. It looks really cool, and can definately change moods effectively. Just a thought on another way to use your lights without buying a cyc itself. We actually built a backdrop for a production locally, and our shop does have the materials and equipment to do it. It is a LOT of fabric, and its not that obvious until its on the ground (or your the guy carrying it to the truck).

 

[mstaylor]

Alright then, we do use them for washes and for full stage coloring. I wonder if it would be worth making a kind of cyc and hanging it from the extra batten we have, would be like, a sheat with weights on the bottom, but I don't know.
What are cycs used for usually?
Hmm, maybe it would look good for dance recitals.

Follow the link and watch behind Cosby. All through his shpw they roll colors on the cyc.

 

[CSCTech]

Alright, we do have a middle and rear black traveller, I will have to get some gel sheets and cut some for the cycs and try it out on the black curtains. Are their special gel holders for these or do I just slide them in?

 

[church]

we made a reasonable cyc for our church out of two large painters drop cloths bought at Home Depot. We had to lay it out on the floor of the auditorium and pin it together. to stich it we made two rows of interlocking rectangular tables withe the sewing machine sat in the middle and slid the fabric along the tables took a bit of co-ordination but it worked. we also stiched a pocket along the bottom to allow a pipe to be inserted to add weight and tension to the cyc. The cyc works on stage and the seam is something you have to look for when you sit in the audience. Only down side is it is very slightly off-white. Not perfect but it was all we could afford.

 

[DuckJordan]

Alright, we do have a middle and rear black traveller, I will have to get some gel sheets and cut some for the cycs and try it out on the black curtains. Are their special gel holders for these or do I just slide them in?

what type of cycs do you have? We have the colortran Far cyc (3 light), it requires special frames that are more like four strips of sheet metal painted and with 4 holes for pins to hold the gel in place. they are fairly flexable but i am betting you need a frame for the gel

 

[CSCTech]

I believe we have the same ones Duck,
Far Cyc > Fixtures > Theatrical Equipment > Commercial Lighting > All Leviton Products from Leviton Electrical and Electronic Products

Alright thanks, Will have to run down to Immedia and get 12 of those then.

 

[CSCTech]

I called up our supplier, and I asked a lot of questions about lighting, we usually use them for audio needs. Turns out they don't stock much lighting but can order almost anything : ) Yay maybe good for us!
Anyways,
He says he can get the frames, I need to find out the exact ones I need though..
They are Colortran 3 Unit Far Cycs, any specs for the exact ones needed? Or I will just need to go measure them.
And he will sell us 20''x24'' gel sheets for $7 each which is great. He worried me when he said the cycs will burn through them faster..But they will be maybe at 50% so I hope it will be alright.
And I hope two cycs will covor the whole stage evenly. I am using other lights of course, but the two cycs will have three colors each (One of the same in each one). I will be moving lights around tomorrow for the show and if all goes well I will be oging to the store with some money and come back with three gel sheets and 6 frames once I talk with the lightign designer about colors. (Praying that we have the frames already, or the Fresnel ones will fit.)

Off topic,
It's Aladin, three scenes. I am thinking three colors, a dirty yellow for the desert scene, a grayish for the castle, and a almost black, deep purple for a cave.

 

[derekleffew]

... I will be going to the store with some money and come back with three gel sheets and 6 frames once I talk with the lightign designer about colors. (Praying that we have the frames already, or the Fresnel ones will fit.) ...

If they are Leviton/LEE/Colortran Far Cyc, the frames will measure 15-1/2" x 14-3/4", thus you will need one sheet (20"x24", or 21"x24") of color per cell.

...It's Aladdin, three scenes. I am thinking three colors, a dirty yellow for the desert scene, a grayish for the castle, and a almost black, deep purple for a cave.

"Grayish" is going to be a problem. While some will argue, I was taught back at the dawn of electricity, there's no such thing as gray or brown light. If you're looking at R97, R397, R98, L209-211, AP2310-2330, they will reduce the intensity of the light without changing its color. Probably not the effect you're after.

 

[shiben]

If they are Leviton/LEE/Colortran Far Cyc, the frames will measure 15-1/2" x 14-3/4", thus you will need one sheet (20"x24", or 21"x24") of color per cell.


"Grayish" is going to be a problem. While some will argue, I was taught back at the dawn of electricity, there's no such thing as gray or brown light. If you're looking at R97, R397, R98, L209-211, AP2310-2330, they will reduce the intensity of the light without changing its color. Probably not the effect you're after.

There is brown gel, it just doesnt look like tree bark, its more like brown light (also, if it doesnt exist, how do you see stuff that is brown?). Also, if you want the look of the inside of a castle, most stone is not actually grey all over. Try replicating the light as it is inside a castle, not the color of the castle itself. If I recall, the castle thing is kind of a nicer affair, you can probably get away with more interesting color choice than grey (talk to the director about that one). Also, order a pile of extra gel if your going to use a deep blue in a cyc... R385 comes to mind, and it burns thru super fast and you need the intensity. Dark colors just burn fast, and need a lot of intensity.