New Lighting Blog Series: Types of Units
- Thread starterEsoteric
- Start date
Blatantly false, inherently incorrect statements, as was discussed in this thread: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/24736-light-par-can.html .
Lots of other inaccuracies/omissions that I don't have to energy to critique/correct. "Saturate" is a verb, not an adjective. PAR64 NSP and VNSP lamps do not produce a circular beam. (They do in the Source Four PAR though, which maybe should be mentioned).
What the h3ck is this supposed to mean?
Who is the target audience for this blog?
jglodeklights
Well-Known Member
A good subject and a good blog overall. Some comments, though, mostly based on me finding your conclusions a little on the narrow side.
While certainly MUCH less popular, there are short tube versions of PARcans (I've even seen a few people made themselves by purchasing older PARcans, cutting the tube off and welding gel clips on). Part of the reason for using the longer tube is to contain spill outside of the field and to help hide the sometimes extremely bright light source. Much like a top hat.
For dance, in the venues I work at and with the designers I work with, they are actually more popular for uses such as back diagonals (due to the beam shape fitting such purposes well and overall high output) and pipe ends (again, due to shape and output).
I, as I've said on the boards in the past, actually like PARs of any variety for front light. They have the kick I'm often looking for, while providing decent shaping of the lit area in a soft manner. Obviously, if dealing with projections or needing more isolation, then avoid at all costs unless you feel like self manufacturing a donut to precisely fit the beam.
Definitely an educational article if you haven't dealt with them much, though!
And Derek also makes some excellent comments. It may behoove you to discuss S4 and Shakespeare PAR's with this as well, as the same comments regarding the S4 PAR apply to the Shakespeare PAR (I'm sure there are others out there, too. No?)
While certainly MUCH less popular, there are short tube versions of PARcans (I've even seen a few people made themselves by purchasing older PARcans, cutting the tube off and welding gel clips on). Part of the reason for using the longer tube is to contain spill outside of the field and to help hide the sometimes extremely bright light source. Much like a top hat.
For dance, in the venues I work at and with the designers I work with, they are actually more popular for uses such as back diagonals (due to the beam shape fitting such purposes well and overall high output) and pipe ends (again, due to shape and output).
I, as I've said on the boards in the past, actually like PARs of any variety for front light. They have the kick I'm often looking for, while providing decent shaping of the lit area in a soft manner. Obviously, if dealing with projections or needing more isolation, then avoid at all costs unless you feel like self manufacturing a donut to precisely fit the beam.
Definitely an educational article if you haven't dealt with them much, though!
And Derek also makes some excellent comments. It may behoove you to discuss S4 and Shakespeare PAR's with this as well, as the same comments regarding the S4 PAR apply to the Shakespeare PAR (I'm sure there are others out there, too. No?)
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Esoteric
Well-Known Member
1. You are absolutely right about this. I was finally able to find some manufacturer data on VNSP and NSP lamps that gives the output in two dimensions. All the other information I saw last night gave the angles in only one dimension (hence me thinking they might be circular). Thank you for pointing that out.
2. Saturate is an adjective.
3. I will talk more specifically about lighting at extreme angles.
4. I will add other angles (high backs, pipe ends, etc) but I felt in saying that they were of use in back light and side light included those positions, but I can always be more specific, although I was trying to avoid terminology that is not exact, like "pipe ends" (which mean different things to different people).
5. Source4 PARs will get their own article after Fresnels and ERS units (part II and part III).
I thought I got the bottle in (without calling it that) in the part where I described rotating the ceramic to adjust the oval.
The audience is lighting designers and electricians just beginning their careers as well as churches and bands. It is a base level article, not as advanced as designing a show or things such as that.
By the way I borrowed your parabolic reflector illustration from the other thread. Hope you don't mind.
2. Saturate is an adjective.
3. I will talk more specifically about lighting at extreme angles.
4. I will add other angles (high backs, pipe ends, etc) but I felt in saying that they were of use in back light and side light included those positions, but I can always be more specific, although I was trying to avoid terminology that is not exact, like "pipe ends" (which mean different things to different people).
5. Source4 PARs will get their own article after Fresnels and ERS units (part II and part III).
I thought I got the bottle in (without calling it that) in the part where I described rotating the ceramic to adjust the oval.
The audience is lighting designers and electricians just beginning their careers as well as churches and bands. It is a base level article, not as advanced as designing a show or things such as that.
By the way I borrowed your parabolic reflector illustration from the other thread. Hope you don't mind.
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While saturate can technically be used as an adjective, it rarely is in modern english and the word Saturated is almost always a clearer choice for the adjectival form.
Saturate is an adjective when it is saturated, but in this case, it is a verb. Saturate gels? Tinted gels? Are you referring to Manufacturing process or just the colors?
EDIT: I knew I shouldn't have spent all that time looking it up!
So, you are now responsible for all the technicians out there that I have to explain what the bottle is when they are 25' above the deck when I have 20 minutes left to focus an hours work of gear?If your going to write articles and promote them around here, at least use terminology that you will hear in the field.
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Esoteric
Well-Known Member
1. It may not be used that way very often, but saturate IS an adjective. Period. I have never seen anyone refer to the manufacturing process of a gel as tinted or saturate or saturated. When you refer to the process of coloring the gel it would saturating or tinting the gel. Although I have always heard of it referred to as coloring the gel anyway.
2. In every IA roadhouse and on every IA tour that I ever worked on (and every tour I ever worked on period) the bottle is the piece of ceramic that is attached to the lamp. When the LD says rotate the bottle you reach into the back of the unit, grab the ceramic and twist. I have never seen the term bottle used any other way in any setting I have ever been in. Please explain to me your version of what the bottle is. It takes two seconds for the conversation to go....
"Rotate the bottle"
"What is the bottle?"
"The ceramic that holds the lamp in place."
"Oh, okay."
And technically it is NOT a bottle, so it is better if the person knows what it is to begin with and then learns the slang term for it. But just to appease picky road house local crew, I updated the article with the word bottle in it.
Just like a f-nut or j-nut is a set screw (and when I do a tech article on focusing a light, I will refer to it as a set screw, not a f-nut or j-nut).
2. In every IA roadhouse and on every IA tour that I ever worked on (and every tour I ever worked on period) the bottle is the piece of ceramic that is attached to the lamp. When the LD says rotate the bottle you reach into the back of the unit, grab the ceramic and twist. I have never seen the term bottle used any other way in any setting I have ever been in. Please explain to me your version of what the bottle is. It takes two seconds for the conversation to go....
"Rotate the bottle"
"What is the bottle?"
"The ceramic that holds the lamp in place."
"Oh, okay."
And technically it is NOT a bottle, so it is better if the person knows what it is to begin with and then learns the slang term for it. But just to appease picky road house local crew, I updated the article with the word bottle in it.
Just like a f-nut or j-nut is a set screw (and when I do a tech article on focusing a light, I will refer to it as a set screw, not a f-nut or j-nut).
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I think there's also some danger in proclaiming that "X fixture is only used for Y purpose." Yes, there are certain fixtures that tend to fulfill certain purposes better than others, but the reality is you can use whatever the hell fixture you like for whatever the hell purpose you like. For example, anytime a road LD asks for a floor unit, they usually want a PAR or a Fresnel. But we don't have any spares of either, so they get a Strand Century 4 1/2 x 6 1/2. May not be quite what they wanted, but it does what it needs to. Saying that a fixture is only used for one purpose leads boring (and likely bad) design.
Esoteric
Well-Known Member
While any unit can be used for anything, I would contend that the idea of using any unit for any task leads to bad designs.
For example, in college we decided to see what an Altman Sky Cyc hung directly over our black box stage and gelled in RGBA would look like. I mean really, it is just a wash light with a greater angle on one end than the other and a directional throw. So if we hung it downstage center a bit, then it should technically light the whole stage in a nice, even wash.
Wrong. It threw light literally everywhere. It lit up the set, the audience, even the theater walls. It looked terrible. There is a reason that it is a cyc light.
Similarly, there is a reason that ERS units are used for front light. PARs are just too uncontrollable. They are fine for TV or film (and I use them for that exact use all the time in those areas), because the camera acts as shutters for the unit. But in theater? Except in very specific situations, they are just not acceptable in that role.
Can an ERS make side lights? Sure. I do it all the time. But if someone is buying lights, and they are buying lights to be side lights, why not buy a unit that is better suited for the job (like a PARcan)?
Some lights are able to fill multiple roles.
Some lights can fill multiple roles if they have to (I lit a show once with 24 of those clip lights from Home Depot a could of garden lights and 1 6x9) but there is a reason that we use other units in that role.
Its people like you that I have to come in and clean up behind because someone told a space that they could use any unit for any job and so they have their ERS units hanging upstage as backlights and their PARcans hanging in the front as a front wash.
Can any light do anything? Sure. Should they? Nope.
For example, in college we decided to see what an Altman Sky Cyc hung directly over our black box stage and gelled in RGBA would look like. I mean really, it is just a wash light with a greater angle on one end than the other and a directional throw. So if we hung it downstage center a bit, then it should technically light the whole stage in a nice, even wash.
Wrong. It threw light literally everywhere. It lit up the set, the audience, even the theater walls. It looked terrible. There is a reason that it is a cyc light.
Similarly, there is a reason that ERS units are used for front light. PARs are just too uncontrollable. They are fine for TV or film (and I use them for that exact use all the time in those areas), because the camera acts as shutters for the unit. But in theater? Except in very specific situations, they are just not acceptable in that role.
Can an ERS make side lights? Sure. I do it all the time. But if someone is buying lights, and they are buying lights to be side lights, why not buy a unit that is better suited for the job (like a PARcan)?
Some lights are able to fill multiple roles.
Some lights can fill multiple roles if they have to (I lit a show once with 24 of those clip lights from Home Depot a could of garden lights and 1 6x9) but there is a reason that we use other units in that role.
Its people like you that I have to come in and clean up behind because someone told a space that they could use any unit for any job and so they have their ERS units hanging upstage as backlights and their PARcans hanging in the front as a front wash.
Can any light do anything? Sure. Should they? Nope.
I've used cyc lights succesfuly as both back light and downlight with out it lighting up the audience and theatre walls, hell I even have pictures in the show us your show's thread in the lighting forum.
I've used both PAR's and Fresnels as front light. Barn doors are a must though in this situation IMHO.
I prefer ERS as sidelights to PAR's. You can shutter off of legs and sets and most importantly you can drop gobo's in them.
It's quotes like these that start flame wars. This will be the only warning for this thread to keep it civil.
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Gern
Active Member
Les
Well-Known Member
I've always thought of "the bottle" as being the entire lamp. Thus, you use the socket to 'spin the bottle'.
chausman, Saturate (verb) and Saturate (adj.) have two different pronunciations. Saturate (adj.) is pronounced like Sach-ur-it. Not commonly used in the US, but it is a real, actual thing. It also sounds smarter than "saturated". Either/or is fine -- people will know what you mean.
Funny about the CYC lights; I used them as tops for the RWB wash in Les Mis. It gave kind of a "banner" effect through the haze, which was perfect for the show. (pics below). The effect is not something I'd want for just any 'ole show, though. The CYC lights were Strand Iris, and the trim was ~16'. I'm sure the results vary between models (and venues).
Lots of flack concerning what should be used where. Perhaps phrases like "most commonly used as..." should be used, with disclaimers such as "but can be used in any situation where the user wants X wash of light". Lighting design is a lot about individual tastes and personalities, so please refer to rule # 15 in the http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/19893-lighting-designers-vs-board-ops.html handbook
.
Les Mis CYC lights (I've over-used these pictures here before. Sorry!):
One Day More
Wedding Chorale
Night that the Barricades fell
chausman, Saturate (verb) and Saturate (adj.) have two different pronunciations. Saturate (adj.) is pronounced like Sach-ur-it. Not commonly used in the US, but it is a real, actual thing. It also sounds smarter than "saturated". Either/or is fine -- people will know what you mean.
Funny about the CYC lights; I used them as tops for the RWB wash in Les Mis. It gave kind of a "banner" effect through the haze, which was perfect for the show. (pics below). The effect is not something I'd want for just any 'ole show, though. The CYC lights were Strand Iris, and the trim was ~16'. I'm sure the results vary between models (and venues).
Lots of flack concerning what should be used where. Perhaps phrases like "most commonly used as..." should be used, with disclaimers such as "but can be used in any situation where the user wants X wash of light". Lighting design is a lot about individual tastes and personalities, so please refer to rule # 15 in the http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/19893-lighting-designers-vs-board-ops.html handbook
.Les Mis CYC lights (I've over-used these pictures here before. Sorry!):
One Day More
Wedding Chorale
Night that the Barricades fell
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