CYC Lighting

[tomthetechie]

That's a terrible console, no one should be subjected to running one of those when there are so many other budget options out there.

This. So much this. The smartfade is painful. Granted there aren't a lot of non-painful options at that price range but that would be the last thing I would recommend. The Strand 250ML is a little better at the same price point and is a little more intelligent fixture friendly though I personally would find software I could stand with a dongle. If he sets his lights in the right mode, the Leprecon should work. Depending on what other lights he is running. I'm with Footer on the Chroma Q's. Very nice light if you can foot the bill.

 

[AsherSB]

On the console:
Take a look at the ETC element. Great console with support for LEDs, movers, touch screens, pretty much everything you could want both in performance and usability, it even gives you hints to guide you through programing. It's pricy, but you were looking at some pretty expensive LEDs, you can find one turn-key for less than $4,000 used. A very good upgrade and a fast learn, I would say a must before going with an LED cyc.
As for the lights:
Everything I've seen recommended here is good, but probably a bit powerful for such a short throw. You can dig up chroma-q's used too, but I don't know if your school will let you. Some don't like things that aren't new.

 

[jglodeklights]

The Spectra CYC 100's are a good fixture. However, they have nowhere near the punch of a Colorforce 72 (or even a Colorblaze 72 for that matter). Just make sure you get the correct lens option for where you can place the fixture. Border lens (30 degree beam) if they are within 1' or so of the cyc, cyc lens (80 degree beam) if they are 3-5' away.

As for consoles, I'm actually a fan of the SmartFade, you just need to read the manual. And actually read the manual. However, I'd take a used Element over it anyway. The Cognito is OK, too. The JANDS Stagesetter is great for busking with individual faders, but it doesn't have a true HTP scene/playback/sub mode.

 

[AsherSB]

The Spectra CYC 100's are a good fixture. However, they have nowhere near the punch of a Colorforce 72 (or even a Colorblaze 72 for that matter). Just make sure you get the correct lens option for where you can place the fixture. Border lens (30 degree beam) if they are within 1' or so of the cyc, cyc lens (80 degree beam) if they are 3-5' away.

As for consoles, I'm actually a fan of the SmartFade, you just need to read the manual. And actually read the manual. However, I'd take a used Element over it anyway. The Cognito is OK, too. The JANDS Stagesetter is great for busking with individual faders, but it doesn't have a true HTP scene/playback/sub mode.

I finally got to busk a full show in the smartfade, it wasn't terrible, but for the price there is so much more you can get. By now it's just old and featureless. No monitor out, tiny on board display, hard to patch, the list goes on. I looked around for the JANDS StageSetter but couldn't find it, just the CL.

 

[Reggie]

Correct. By addressing each fixture the same, you control them as a group. There is also a setting within the fixture itself which controls how many channels it requires to control it - essentially the fixture can be broken up into multiple sections within it.

So for a 24 foot cyc you could either control it in 6 inch incraments (requiring 196 channels), or as little as 3 channels for the whole thing in RGB Magic Amber mode.

Can you give an example of where you would want more individualized control of the fixtures lighting the cyc?

 

[RickR]

Striping a Cyc is fun.

• Sunrise/set means brighter/whiter at one point along the horizon
  
• Double blend from center to left and right
  
• Rainbow fade side to side
  
• Moving the rainbow or a random chase is party on the cyc
  
• Alternate stripes of colors from costumes or set (ballet school stunt)
  
• Fade to deeper color at edges makes the stage look smaller and draws focus center
• Fire effect, especially if you have a ground row
• Anytime SR is lit differently that SL

 

[Reggie]

Thanks. Guess I view a cyc in a very limited fashion, just a white infinity space.

 

[GreyWyvern]

I finally got to busk a full show in the smartfade, it wasn't terrible, but for the price there is so much more you can get. By now it's just old and featureless. No monitor out, tiny on board display, hard to patch, the list goes on. I looked around for the JANDS StageSetter but couldn't find it, just the CL.

While the SmartFade series is going on 8-10 years old at this point, the last software (SmartSoft) and firmware (SmartFade) updates were just around two years ago.
It is actually quite easy to patch via drag-and-drop while looking at your computer monitor/laptop screen.

The "monitor out" on this board happens to be a USB-B connector. Too many people forget about or don't realize the console is only half of the full SmartFade board. The free SmartSoft software makes it as good or better than many of the similarly priced options. It is so easy to program and patch. You can have everything labeled. It's actually quite nice.

That's a terrible console, no one should be subjected to running one of those when there are so many other budget options out there.

I think most people that have that attitude either a) don't understand the market for the SmartFade series (small church and small theatre) or b) have only used it standalone with out SmartSoft. I did not like it at first because of how hard it is to program and patch, but then I connected it to my computer and ran it with SmartSoft, and now am a fan. I have even borrowed it (it's my work testing console) many times to use on weekend gigs. I have an old XP laptop that is just fine for it. I would not want to have to use one without it being connected to SmartSoft though.

 

[AsherSB]

I tried SmartSoft once without the console connected. It's nice that the board plays well with the software, but I hate using a PC for control. There is a certain degree of unreliability that bugs me, I run shows off my laptop and I hate it. Knowing that I might have to restart for updates, or worse have an issue with hardware, really puts me on edge. That said I guess the board would still work if the computer went down..
Maybe computers just scare me.

 

[GreyWyvern]

I tried SmartSoft once without the console connected. It's nice that the board plays well with the software, but I hate using a PC for control. There is a certain degree of unreliability that bugs me, I run shows off my laptop and I hate it. Knowing that I might have to restart for updates, or worse have an issue with hardware, really puts me on edge. That said I guess the board would still work if the computer went down..
Maybe computers just scare me.

I still run the show from the board itself. Once programming is done, I don't do much of anything on the software/computer side except use it as a display for all the extra information it can show while running a show.
I haven't had to busk a show on a SmartFade before, but have thought about how I would do it if I had to. Glad to hear it is doable.
I too have a slight aversion to running things on a computer.

 

[RickR]

Know that SmartSoft runs the console, not the reverse. The show file lives on the console also.
No matter what happens to the PC, the board runs the DMX and the show goes on.

 

[GreyWyvern]

Know that SmartSoft runs the console, not the reverse.

I would not say that one runs the other. Any changes made with either are immediately reflected in the other. They work together. Just like you can operate the board without SmartSoft, you can run SmartSoft without the board connected or on and it runs in offline mode. You can do everything just the same as with the SmartFade connected, with the exception of control anything. You can even go as far as to think of the SmartFade as simply a dongle and do everything through SmartSoft. Likewise, you can do everything though the SmartFade and only use SmartSoft as a display. Not sure why anyone would want to use them either of those ways though.

The show file lives on the console also.

While the console does keep everything current in its memory, you can save/load shows and patches from the console to/from an SD card. You can also save and load in SmartSoft from the computer. You can load a show from the SD card in the console and save it to the computer through SmartSoft, and vice versa. The only caveat is that when saving to the SD card from the console, you can't create a name, only SHOW01.ASC through SHOW99.ASC.

No matter what happens to the PC, the board runs the DMX and the show goes on.

That is correct. Ultimately, the console does have the control.

 

[MyKEY Bee]

If you can afford Selador's you can afford Chroma Q ColorForce 72's. Go with the ColorForce... and don't look back. I just bought 6 of them and they are by far the best cyc fixture out there. It is a tad bit overkill for a shorter throw but you won't have to worry about the cyc washing out.

How big is your cyc if you dont mind me asking??

 

[PeteEngel]

For a real LED Cyc light, look no farther than the Robert Juliat Dalis. Everything else pales in comparison...

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qyiwxMUBM4

 

[SteveB]

Issues I have withe the RJ's is the photo and video in the demo shows top units and ground row. Not really useful when you don't typically have the time or room to set up ground rows.

Then you discover that the top units need to be at a particular height AND distance from a Cyc/back drop in order for their particular lensing system to work. If you don't have the US/DS distance, your kind of SOL as there are seemingly no other options in terms of different lenses.

This is why, while I think they are otherwise great units for a very specific use, there are other units - Colorforce and ETC units with greater flexibility.

So choose this not carefully !.

 

[PeteEngel]

Yeah, kind of like all actual Cyc lights, you don't need lensing. it is all in the reflector. Positioning and distance is a factor in EVERY fixture so... not sure where you are going here. Proper tool for the proper job. Enjoy!

 

[SteveB]

Yeah, kind of like all actual Cyc lights, you don't need lensing. it is all in the reflector. Positioning and distance is a factor in EVERY fixture so... not sure where you are going here. Proper tool for the proper job. Enjoy!

Position and distance is less a factor with The Chroma Q Color Force, which has a Cyc optic lense and as with the huge variety of lenses on the ETC Selador strips, which allow greater flexibility as to fixture placement then is available with the RJ units.

Seems most people only think of open faced style fixtures when trying to light a Cyc, but it can be done very successfully using strip style units if diffusion lenses are available.

 

[sosayweall]

If it is still worth anything:

I second the endorsement of the ChromaQ Color Forces. If you buy used beware of 1st generation models. They have been plagued flickering issues. While ChromaQ is repairing them for free you still have to pay for shipping to get them to the factory, which is a fortune for 72" fixtures.

I find it hard to go wrong with the ETC Element in most cases. It may end up being a little more than you need, but when it comes to LED's, the feature set of the EOS family like the color picker, easy patching, and world class customer services out shine all. At least to me.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Position and distance is less a factor with The Chroma Q Color Force, which has a Cyc optic lense and as with the huge variety of lenses on the ETC Selador strips, which allow greater flexibility as to fixture placement then is available with the RJ units.

Seems most people only think of open faced style fixtures when trying to light a Cyc, but it can be done very successfully using strip style units if diffusion lenses are available.

I have not found the Selador strips to be very tolerant of placement - 15-25" from drop, or not even at all. There are places where a scraper like this is the answer - and they look good end to end - but if they have to be spaced at all, not so good.

Always sorry that Philips couldn't get there PLCYC2 listed - with two engines - high and low - and different reflectors for each. The demo was impressive.

 

[Footer]

I have not found the Selador strips to be very tolerant of placement - 15-25" from drop, or not even at all. There are places where a scraper like this is the answer - and they look good end to end - but if they have to be spaced at all, not so good.

Ours ColorForce's are 30" away and they look fantastic @ at 24' trim. Also, if you are buying or specing strip fixtures of any type (zip strip, R40, or LED) and not stacking them yoke to yoke you will have issues. They are not designed to work like that.