Lack of Gels

[hhslights]

So I was just talking to a friend of mine at another school who is also involved with tech theatre. I got into talking to him about lights and gels and what not. It turns out that for general/non-special lighting they use no gels at all. No diffusers or anything. I found this incredibly odd, their tech program is "better than ours" in terms of actually having things that work. I would of thought that they would be doing things like gelling instruments and not cutting corners like that. But then it got me into thinking that perhaps we were the ones doing it wrong.

We use Surprise Pink for our general lighting. When we want absolutely no color we use diffusers. I want to know if gelling instruments is a given or something that could be done with out. My initial feeling is that gels are a given but then again, this has thrown me off. So is the gelling of general wash lights a given and if so what gels are normally used?

 

[Soxred93]

In my opinion, using gels is always a good idea. I really don't like the natural blue-white light that comes out of the ungelled lights. I prefer to have a pinkish-red color on most lights that don't have a specific color. On our vanilla light plot at our school, I use R3410 for all the ellipsoidals and fresnels, and L202 for the PARs. I've found that that creates the best neutral color on our stage.

Most modern theaters always use gels. The other school is being an outcast by not gelling lamps.

Additionally, just because they have instruments that work doesn't mean that they have a good theatre program. Some school could buy a brand new Congo, 100 Source Fours, 50 Source Four Revolutions, and all the technology in the world won't do anything if they have a bad lighting designer.

 

[chris325]

My school uses NCP's and ungelled lights for a general wash, and it actually looks decent, even out of Colortran lekos and fresnels. Usually, other gels aren't used unless a scene calls for a particular color.

 

[derekleffew]

... We use Surprise Pink for our general lighting. When we want absolutely no color we use diffusers. ...

By "diffusers" I'm assuming you mean diffusion media, which serves a different function and most likely shouldn't/needn't be used as a substitute for No Color/Open White.

As much as Kelite or other color manufacturers may desire lol, there's nothing wrong with a naked lens, as long as it achieves the desired effect. I've lit entire shows, especially by Brecht, with No Color. I've also lit entire shows/scenes with only R05 and L203, and others with only R26 and R80. In some auditoriums, with untrained users who often use the stage lights as worklights (an abhorrent practice, but it persists nonetheless), it might be best to leave the lights ungelled, as the color is only going to burn anyway and decreases the light output.

Neither your nor the other school's methods can be considered right or wrong. And it's amazing and a worthwhile lesson to discover how many colors can be achieved by varying the intensity of an open white source, due to amber-drift.

 

[Synchronize]

Now we dont have a whole lot of money at my school for the art, which leaves none for theatre. We have mabey five different colors. When I do a general wash I use a pale amber WITH white light. I think too much color is bad, but too much white is bad. So my 2 cents is use a little of both.

 

[rochem]

Basically what everyone else has said. In the professional world, gels are used in most instruments, unless the LD is making a consious choice to leave an instrument ungelled, or Open White (the newest addition to our extensive glossary - thanks Derek!). Surprise Pink is a great frontlight color, just enough to make the actors look healthy and alive, while maintaining a relatively warm white base. But like Derek said, some great warm colors can be achieved just by dimming down a No Color source. I've designed shows where I knew I would have a certain special at very low intensity, so I just left it N/C rather than dropping a cut of R02 or something in, which would actually make it more warm than I wanted.

Side Note: I've worked with LDs (professional and community theatre) who insist on "gelling" all their N/C instruments with R00 - which can get pretty expensive when you're buying 5 sheets of R00 for one show. Does this happen to anyone else?

 

[willbb123]

There wasn't a theater program at my highschool. (gym-auditorium, 24 dimmers 20 some lx) I had no idea what a gel was until I started working community theater.

It my current REP plot, there are two groups of N/C PAR downlight. One set truly has no gel, and is our normal work light, the other has color scrollers.

There are shows that call for N/C light. Orchestra concerts, they just need to be viable and be able to read their music. Two groups of N/C pars come in handy for this.

 

[Kelite]

As much as Kelite or other color manufacturers may desire lol, there's nothing wrong with a naked lens, as long as it achieves the desired effect. I've lit entire shows, especially by Brecht, with No Color.

This topic came up at a good time, as I lit a small outdoor concert over the Labor Day weekend with static ETC S4 Jr and S4 PAR fixtures. After sampling a few colors, I chose to go 'naked' and run with sweet tungsten light uninhibited with added color. The purpose of the rig was simple- allow the concert goers a view of their friends and neighbors on stage, while adding depth to the stage. Had I chosen more fixtures and additional positions for stands, would I have added color and diffusion? Maybe, maybe not.
Truth be told, we had a successful show. The entertainers had fun, as did the audience, and I was told to please plan on coming back next year. (Having seen the set-up, I've got some ideas for next time around!)

White light IS a color and you ARE allowed to use it.

 

[RichMoore]

As Kelite stated, "White light IS a color and your ARE allowed to use it", he is so correct.

In my concert hall, I am required to use white/NC for 90% of what I have on stage. It seems that symphony musicians are allergic to any color of light other than white. Put simply, white light makes it easier for them to read their music.

A bit of a humorous story:

One day, after having had a vocal group on the stage the night before, I had a "Steinway Artist", the pianists who tour the world dedicating new Steinway pianos, come onto the stage to rehearse for a concert that evening. Earlier in the day, I had one of my student workers go up to the catwalks and remove the gels that had been used for the previous night's program. Well, the student worker missed one red gel. When the lights came up for the artist to begin his rehearsal, he jumped up and began screaming for the stage manager. I walked onto the stage and asked if there was a problem and how could I be of assistance. He pointed to the fixture with the red gel and said, "Remove the COLOR in that light. I do NOT play in honky-tonks!"

Classical musicians.....go figure.

Rich

 

[spiwak2005]

Another repeat of what's been said. When I did orchestra concerts, I went mostly with no gel. When said orchestra had a soloist, I would focus a couple specials from the catwalk with a pink.

Here's my funny story - we had a professional orchestra with a guest violin soloist. She started screaming during their second rehearsal that my spotlights were too hot and were sending her violin out of tune. I whispered to the conductor that those lights weren't on yesterday and she was still out of tune...he understand and told me not to worry about it and make something up. I told her that the pink was a very hot color and I would change it to a cool lavender. She was soooo happy and continued to play out of tune, but she never complained again.

 

[epimetheus]

That's the thing, you gotta tell those prissy musicians to sit down and shut up!

My last year in orchestra in high school, our director let us get a little creative with the stage lighting for our Spring concert. All our stage had at the time was RGBA R40 strips and N/C downlight, with R02 frontlight. We did pretty good by adding color to the stage with the strips to reflect the mood of the different pieces we were playing.

 

[derekleffew]

Another genre where No Color is de rigueur--Fashion Shows. Clothing designers will often let you do whatever you want with the background, but there better be nothing but pure, bright, white light on the runway! They can get downright pissy when the fabrics don't appear as they expect them to. (I learned that lesson the hard way.)

...Side Note: I've worked with LDs (professional and community theatre) who insist on "gelling" all their N/C instruments with R00 - which can get pretty expensive when you're buying 5 sheets of R00 for one show. Does this happen to anyone else?

Really? No, never. We've discussed the purpose of R00 before, and besides use as leader for scrollers, the only remotely valid reason would be if one were stacking color in advance and wanted to make sure a fixture didn't get skipped. What a waste of budget. I'd have to question the designer if he/she also wanted a no-pattern gobo and holder in every ERS! Oh, and can you substitute AP0000 for the R00?, because right now (until 09/22/09) there's a buck a sheet rebate.

 

[Kelite]

"Remove the COLOR in that light. I do NOT play in honky-tonks!"

Yeah? Well keep that attitude and you MIGHT!

 

[rochem]

Really? No, never. We've discussed the purpose of R00 before, and besides use as leader for scrollers, the only remotely valid reason would be if one were stacking color in advance and wanted to make sure a fixture didn't get skipped. What a waste of budget. I'd have to question the designer if he/she also wanted a no-pattern gobo and holder in every ERS! Oh, and can you substitute AP0000 for the R00?, because right now (until 09/22/09) there's a buck a sheet rebate.

One of the LDs who insisted on this was a well-known broadway LD. We had a major broadway touring show do two weeks of tech in our theatre last year before going out on the road, and they brought all the designers and the director out from New York for tech. I can somewhat see the logic of wanting R00 on tour, for the same reason that we write "N/C" on plots instead of leaving it blank - so that Electrics doesnt see a unit coming off the truck without a color frame and have to wonder if one fell out, or if it was supposed to be N/C. The other instance was for the LD for a local community theatre - I think he was trying to match all the other gelled units in the plot or something? I really have no idea about that second one.

EDIT: just glanced through my Apollo swatch book - is it just me, or is there no AP color that corresponds to R00? C'mon Kelite, imagine how many sheets of "gel" you could have sold to us if you guys had a color like that.

 

[Kelite]

EDIT: just glanced through my Apollo swatch book - is it just me, or is there no AP color that corresponds to R00? C'mon Kelite, imagine how many sheets of "gel" you could have sold to us if you guys had a color like that.

One of the reasons we discontinued AP-1000 'Heat Shield' was the difficulty in convincing a buyer to place no color gel into their stock/fixtures. Yes, there is a purpose. Yes, it is handy once in a while. Yes, it will sell and do what the buyer wants it to do. No, I wouldn't use the stuff myself.
For real heat protection, I use Apollo Gel Shield because it's as thick as a steel gobo and has a thin film, sputter coated surface to reflect IR and UV energy. AP1000 no color, no thanks.

 

[rochem]

One of the reasons we discontinued AP-1000 'Heat Shield' was the difficulty in convincing a buyer to place no color gel into their stock/fixtures. Yes, there is a purpose. Yes, it is handy once in a while. Yes, it will sell and do what the buyer wants it to do. No, I wouldn't use the stuff myself.
For real heat protection, I use Apollo Gel Shield because it's as thick as a steel gobo and has a thin film, sputter coated surface to reflect IR and UV energy. AP1000 no color, no thanks.

Was AP1000 constructed any differently than any other gel, or was it just like R00? Or in other words, did it actually have "Heat Shield" properties, or was it just a clear piece of gel which provided a barrier between the fixture and the gel?

 

[Kelite]

The AP-1000 had a double-coated layer of clear protection as opposed to clean polyester, but the performance difference between it and clean polyester (gel string header/tail material) was not significant. When someone needs protection for a gel string within a scroller body, clear polyester is better than nothing. BUT a true IR/UV energy shield protects the investment.

 

[cprted]

In my concert hall, I am required to use white/NC for 90% of what I have on stage. It seems that symphony musicians are allergic to any color of light other than white. Put simply, white light makes it easier for them to read their music.

As a former pro-symphony musician, there is nothing worse than red, green, blue, and amber shadows across your music.

O/W for just about everything is pretty much the name of the game. As someone else has said, using a light pink in the soloist's side special is usually nice.

That's the thing, you gotta tell those prissy musicians to sit down and shut up!

Highschool is a little different than the pro world ... we have collective agreements!

 

[hhslights]

By "diffusers" I'm assuming you mean diffusion media, which serves a different function and most likely shouldn't/needn't be used as a substitute for No Color/Open White.

As much as Kelite or other color manufacturers may desire lol, there's nothing wrong with a naked lens, as long as it achieves the desired effect. I've lit entire shows, especially by Brecht, with No Color. I've also lit entire shows/scenes with only R05 and L203, and others with only R26 and R80. In some auditoriums, with untrained users who often use the stage lights as worklights (an abhorrent practice, but it persists nonetheless), it might be best to leave the lights ungelled, as the color is only going to burn anyway and decreases the light output.

Neither your nor the other school's methods can be considered right or wrong. And it's amazing and a worthwhile lesson to discover how many colors can be achieved by varying the intensity of an open white source, due to amber-drift.

Our TD is also the Band director and somehow manages to both tech direct and conduct the pit at the same time during musicals. This being the case I am sure he does not know all that needs to be known and what we have been throwing on for a white effect have been referred to as "diffusers". Many thanks for the clarification on that!

As for trying out different effects by leaving the light un-gelled, definitely something that I should try. We burn through R51 and R02 like there is no tomorrow. We have resorted to just replacing them the day of or a day before a major performance or show and leave them to burn out until the next replacement before a show a few months later. It seems to work but is a major pain when having to deal with going through every light and cutting and replacing gels. I can see a lot of time, money and headaches being saved by experimenting with a pure light.

 

[derekleffew]

Our TD is also the Band director...

Unfortunately, not all that uncommon, apparently.

See also http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...r-thrown-into-teaching-technical-theatre.html and http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/education/14697-thinking-becoming-teacher.html [Edit: Nevermind. Upon closer inspection, it was you who started that thread! I'm glad to see your current situation hasn't dissuaded you from thinking of teaching as a career.]