Theatre Manager Won't Let Me Move Ion

Every broadway show I have ever been able to see during techs, every Lort theatre I have aver observed during tech week, every smaller equity company I have watched when cueing - the designer is in the house, at his own desk - and the programmer is either in the booth, or at another desk in the house ( only seen a few times where there are lots of movers). I have never seen the lighting designer touch the console.

Programming the board is not the job of the lighting designer in the theatre world. Ok - for busking and rock and roll it does make sense to combine the two, but with a fixed cue list it is not the preferred way of working.

You seem to be arguing a different point to me. I am saying the board is very commonly in the house. You are saying the LD should not be touching the board. These are different things.

The LD and the board is a separate point as far as I'm concerned and it wasn't in my argument. I just simply said that the board is very commonly found out in the house because it's where the LD will be and lots of programmers prefer to be in close proximity to the LD, so he can point and bounce ideas and whatever that is not easy over comms. In a receiving house I often don't see the LD anyway only a relighter and relighters programming / operating is more common.

My other point was just more that perhaps before telling kids "in real theatre the programmer always works from a booth" you should get more of a grasp of what real theatres do... because having the programmer out in the house is very common.

Now - if you are in a small venue with limited manpower, and you have to perform as both the programmer and the lighting designer - you can best function with the board in the house - but this is NOT the preferred way to do things.

And this, I think, was the nature of the OP.
 
As for the people saying it will get damaged... do you not keep the original shipping carton? If it's good enough to get it from the factory, on a truck to your distributor, then on a van to your theatre, and then into the control room...

Not necessarily damage from moving, or maybe not even the students responsible for the equipment - it is the irresponsible students (and adults) that are the biggest concern, at least from my end. In a lot of school situations, there is no way to keep the board secure if it is in an unsecured location. Too many keys, to the room, access for lots of reasons, lights left on for 2 days etc. These are kids, and don't always follow the rules.

For example: social studies teacher showing a movie unannounced in your space without your knowledge. Wants to plug a popcorn machine in and energize the dimmed circuit from the board that he has access to, and trained students in the class that can help... just saying

I agree in a professional setting things are different, and you should operate which is most efficient in your situation.
 
You seem to be arguing a different point to me. I am saying the board is very commonly in the house. You are saying the LD should not be touching the board. These are different things.

The LD and the board is a separate point as far as I'm concerned and it wasn't in my argument. I just simply said that the board is very commonly found out in the house because it's where the LD will be and lots of programmers prefer to be in close proximity to the LD, so he can point and bounce ideas and whatever that is not easy over comms. In a receiving house I often don't see the LD anyway only a relighter and relighters programming / operating is more common.

My other point was just more that perhaps before telling kids "in real theatre the programmer always works from a booth" you should get more of a grasp of what real theatres do... because having the programmer out in the house is very common.



And this, I think, was the nature of the OP.

I think we may be in "Violent Agreement" here. I was not interpreting your post as a suggestion that the programmer be in the house, but that the board be in the house so the LD can program. Re reading this is not what you wrote.
 
Not necessarily damage from moving, or maybe not even the students responsible for the equipment - it is the irresponsible students (and adults) that are the biggest concern, at least from my end. In a lot of school situations, there is no way to keep the board secure if it is in an unsecured location. Too many keys, to the room, access for lots of reasons, lights left on for 2 days etc. These are kids, and don't always follow the rules.

For example: social studies teacher showing a movie unannounced in your space without your knowledge. Wants to plug a popcorn machine in and energize the dimmed circuit from the board that he has access to, and trained students in the class that can help... just saying

I agree in a professional setting things are different, and you should operate which is most efficient in your situation.

sorry what? Your justification for programming from the booth is in case someone wants to do an unannounced movie night with an unannounced popcorn machine and plug it into a dimmer circuit and program that dimmer into a lighting desk they don't know how to use?

Riiiiiight.

If it really bothers you, the ion is a one man lift, lock it away nightly. I mean, we are talking about the same console right? The Ion is barely bigger than a laptop and barely heavier. The Eos is the one that needs 2 people to move it... we move an Eos all the time and it's never felt the need to jump out of our hands and smash itself all over the floor. But that's off topic.

I said before, build a case for the desk. Doesn't have to be a full Amptown touring flight case. Just a box that lets you easily mount your peripherals, and maybe has some handles to aid transport. You could alternatively build in a lid, and add a padlock, to keep the whole thing secure at night.

But honestly.... anyone who knows enough about the Ion to programme in a dimmer to run a popcorn machine knows more about the Ion than some theatre lampies (me included) so is probably not that great a threat to it. But moreover the situation you refer to is really a low possibility scenario. You may as well account for aliens landing in the control room.
 
De27192 you just aren't getting it man, Tons of people have access to the audience. Very few have access to the booth. That scenario while not likely is just one of many. Such as the In school suspension class being moved for the day to the theater. Now you have students who are likely bad eggs in the same room with the console. Those same students likely got put into the suspension class due to destroying other school property. Now you have one teacher for a group of kids lets say 5-10 in a very likely scenario that the thing is gonna get damaged.

I don't know your experience, and frankly don't care. As a professional hand who works with students on a regular basis (being in a small market means working with students who volenteer for load in and out) I personally never trust my hands to move the console without a case. If it doesn't cause any issues to leave it in the booth why change for the one student who "Has to have" it out in the audience. The reason touring shows put it in the audience is simply because its easier for the ONE LD to see if he has a light out in the rig. He doesn't have time between shows to check every light. He doesn't have someone on deck seeing if all the lights come on when they should. So he's out in the house so he can see the rig he has to keep exactly the same venue to venue. I know for every tech and every design day the console could be in a different room for all the designer cares. He just needs to be able to communicate to the programmer what he wants.
 
De27192 you just aren't getting it man, Tons of people have access to the audience. Very few have access to the booth. That scenario while not likely is just one of many. Such as the In school suspension class being moved for the day to the theater. Now you have students who are likely bad eggs in the same room with the console. Those same students likely got put into the suspension class due to destroying other school property. Now you have one teacher for a group of kids lets say 5-10 in a very likely scenario that the thing is gonna get damaged.

It's not that I'm not getting it. It's just, you're blanket-banning something on the basis of very specific circumstances. The argument seems to be that no school theatre in all the lands can put their desk out in the audience, because someone might plug a popcorn machine into a dimmer and try to program the channel; or someone might bring a load of suspended students into the theatre who will inherently trash the lighting console. No allowance has been made for the fact that these things might not happen, or that actually, they might happen but you could actively do something to mitigate the chances of it happening. That is what the OP was asking... how can I make this work? Not simply why not?

The reason touring shows put it in the audience is simply because its easier for the ONE LD to see if he has a light out in the rig. He doesn't have time between shows to check every light. He doesn't have someone on deck seeing if all the lights come on when they should. So he's out in the house so he can see the rig he has to keep exactly the same venue to venue. I know for every tech and every design day the console could be in a different room for all the designer cares. He just needs to be able to communicate to the programmer what he wants.

Sorry but that's factually wrong. That is NOT the one and only reason people have the console in the house. In many theatres, which have their FOH positions in bridges and masked booms; and who fly headers in front of all their lanterns; you cannot see any lanterns whether you are in the boom or the house. If you want to check lights work, you are better putting the console on the stage. After all, that's where they're all pointed. There are many reasons people put the console in the auditorium... some just don't like being stuck in a dim soundproof box and prefer the comfort of a big airy auditorium. Some like to be able to communicate directly with stage, rather than over comms. Whatever the reason, you should respect the wishes of the people working in your theatre. The whole reason you rig the rig as it is, is because that's the way they want it... why not set control up the way they want it too?

In the world you get problem people and solution people. Problem people find problems and say "we can't do this"; solution people take problems and find a solution so they can say "we can do this". Don't be a problem person. It doesn't get anyone anywhere. Be a solution person. Take the problems you've identified with having the board in the house, and work out a solution. If you're worried about students dropping it... put it in it's box and/or carry it yourself? It's not a big desk. Easily carried alone. Or put it on wheels. Make a nice wheeled desk for your console. You can add an arm for your external monitors and a drawer for keyboard and mouse... then you can just unplug the ethernet and the power and move it wherever you want it. If you're worried about unauthorised use or deliberate vandalism, put it in a locking case. Get the set dept to knock you up a plywood case with a hinged lid and a simple clasp lock... job done. Still worried about vandalism or even theft? Put it back in the booth when you're not using it. It's a few minutes of work. If a few minutes of work in the morning and the evening makes someone happy for the rest of the day, I consider that a good economy. Whatever you do, don't just sit there and say NO. It helps nobody and there's generally no need for it anyway.
 
So in a twisted way we all agree... Original post: 13 year old student (thoughtful and well meaning) was told by his teacher he can't do something.

We have 2 choices as a community as we offer suggestions. Keep in mind that everyone learns from their experiences, and will make choices later in life based on these experiences.

Choice 1: teach the student to defy authority, complain, circumvent, break chain of command, he is always right, there is only one way to do things, break the rules, and he should be inflexible.

Choice 2: teach the student to be innovate, work creatively within parameters, create new ideas, build trust so others will let him create parameters, work around the inflexibility of others, support the needs of others around them, and cooperate.

When you work in any environment, which of these choices do you want the person working with you to have learned?
 
In summary:

- my message to the OP as a direct answer to his question is "do what you're told!" That's your job, a lesson it took me too long to learn was that if you always do what you're told, things will go wrong, but you'll never get the blame. It's an important lesson.

- my message to teachers who say no to such things so blindly is "find solutions, not problems". Saying no is seldom a real solution.
 
Agreeing with DuckJordan's post to an extent and understanding that this is an old issue now, or presume such, I still have to comment. As the Administrator for a Creative Arts Program for over 10years, I was faced with many situations such as this, not to mention times in the Little Theatre where we could not see the stage let alone whether our work was producing the effects desired. In the CAP there were major budget issues and a hierarchy of other departments who all believed they knew best, so we were constantly faced with these issues. NO I would have to say, I agree that if you know where your throw is you don't need to see, however I also agree it would be nice to... I do hope you resolved this issue to some mutual satisfaction, but I also know that you will be confronted with it again, and again, and again in the school setting where you are not in control of your every move and are often up against administrators who KNOW everything and are stern in their view of what you can and can't do. Just be totally aware of your surrounding, know where you have set, and keep a good cue sheet. Good Luck in these matters. Always in Spirit and Truth, E.D.
 
Couldn't resist adding my two cents here. While it may be nice to sit in a comfy seat in the house and play with the light board, you will run into situations where it's just not physically possible. So learning how to deal with such situations will only help in the long run.

Also, when I design a show, I don't WANT to have to concentrate on pushing buttons. Since everyone in the audience is expecting a good view, I tend to wander all over the venue to see the lighting from all possible angles. I find it much more convenient to relay to the guy on the board to do this or that and spend my thought power on looking at what's on stage. Being trapped behind the board programming it, no matter where it is, is more of a hindrance than a help. That style admittedly may not work for everyone, but it does for me.
 
i don't know if this was mentioned but i know it's possible.
Get a wireless router and hook it up to the Ion. Then get a tablet or use your phone and control the board from anywhere in the house. Just make sure that the router has coverage all the way down to on your stage and your set. you can record cues from there and not have to move anything.
 
i don't know if this was mentioned but i know it's possible.
Get a wireless router and hook it up to the Ion. Then get a tablet or use your phone and control the board from anywhere in the house. Just make sure that the router has coverage all the way down to on your stage and your set. you can record cues from there and not have to move anything.

The iRFR or aRFR app has very poor display of channel levels, which makes it a poor designers remote, IMO.
 
In summary:

- my message to the OP as a direct answer to his question is "do what you're told!" That's your job, a lesson it took me too long to learn was that if you always do what you're told, things will go wrong, but you'll never get the blame. It's an important lesson.

- my message to teachers who say no to such things so blindly is "find solutions, not problems". Saying no is seldom a real solution.

Oddly enough, as a teacher, I find it's occasionally *extremely* useful to tell students "No." Not merely to enforce a policy set in place by the school or by others in the administration, but to push creative boundaries. Try lighting a show using only fresnels, or only practicals, or only warm gel colors, or with only twenty four channels, or only twelve cues -- those are all variations on "no," but all of which I've worked within at least once in my professional life.

I might also add, and I direct this to you personally, that rarely do people say no "so blindly." I thank the other posters who suggest asking the administration why the policy of not moving the board was set, not rebelling against it.
 

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