I'm considering getting a couple of used movers and am looking into wash units in the 600 watt range. My top picks are the Mac 600,Studio Color, and the Studio Beam. However this isn't carved in stone. I looking for input from folks who have used the 3, or others in this class, who can rate them for realibility, maintainance cost, features, and value, etc. So let me have it. Oh yea, I prefer to run them at 120 volts. Thanks.
Rate a mover
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porkchop
Well-Known Member
Studio Colors are extremely simple. They do exactly what you ask of them (CMY mixing with some very basic beam shaping options) and nothing more. Very few bells and whistles. That being said, if that's what you're looking for they're great. Very reliable, take a licking and keep on ticking, and unless you're changing color rapidly they're almost silent because they don't have any fans.
The whole fixture can be torn down in about 10 minutes with a 5-way screwdriver and most repairs only require you to replace the drive belts. Seriously when we used to have a board op say they had a color problem we'd just go take the 5 minutes to replace the 4 drive belts (the belts are so cheap that it was just easier to replace all 4 at the first sign of an issue), turn it back on, and probably 9 out of 10 times that fixed the problem without us even taking the fixture back to the workbench.
I haven't worked with either of the other fixtures you mentioned, but I will say even despite my whorish love for Clay Paky I will warn you that their Alpha 575 range isn't their best offering. They tried to pack a lot into a small package and because of that it is under cooled and, unless you are going to use all of the included extras, overpriced.
The whole fixture can be torn down in about 10 minutes with a 5-way screwdriver and most repairs only require you to replace the drive belts. Seriously when we used to have a board op say they had a color problem we'd just go take the 5 minutes to replace the 4 drive belts (the belts are so cheap that it was just easier to replace all 4 at the first sign of an issue), turn it back on, and probably 9 out of 10 times that fixed the problem without us even taking the fixture back to the workbench.
I haven't worked with either of the other fixtures you mentioned, but I will say even despite my whorish love for Clay Paky I will warn you that their Alpha 575 range isn't their best offering. They tried to pack a lot into a small package and because of that it is under cooled and, unless you are going to use all of the included extras, overpriced.
jglodeklights
Well-Known Member
As you are looking at used fixtures, the biggest variable is the maintenance the previous company/user did or did not do to them. For example. My university had two StudioColor 575's in excellent shape. Pretty bright and lots of color. The university I currently work for has a mixed batch. Some have been very well maintained, others not so much. They have a mixed batch of lamps. Color is all over the place, but they work reliabily, despite being powered from dimmers set to full. A venue I worked at recently that had a bunch of them has not been maintaining them, and it showed. Two had stuck color wheels and another had a stuck beam shaper. Lamps were even more all over the place.
I've not worked with Studio Beams or MAC600's, but I did enjoy working with MAC250 washes. Good punch at 17' pipe heights, quiet and good optics. That said, ran into a lamp problem. A couple had long life lamps and thus sucky output. Worked well because the rental company maintained them well.
I've not worked with Studio Beams or MAC600's, but I did enjoy working with MAC250 washes. Good punch at 17' pipe heights, quiet and good optics. That said, ran into a lamp problem. A couple had long life lamps and thus sucky output. Worked well because the rental company maintained them well.
True enough. Just like anything you buy used, you never really know it's true history of use and or abuse. That's why i'm here. Used is another word for crap shoot. However I feel you folks who have been around them for as long as they've been around, worked with them from different companies, different venues ,and different conditions,
Why not give me a few stacks of $1000 bills. Respectfully, I'm just tring to be funny. I didn't mention why or what I was doing. 3 things. Right now there are a lot of the movers I'm asking about up for sale on the internet for as little as 4 to $600 each and buy 2 or 3 you get a road box for 2 or 3 included. I also want a couple to learn basic function and maintainance on them. Also the 600 watt range makes them a bit easier to sell off when I'm done messing around with them. I feel I've narrowed the field down to 3 of the more industry used wash lights I think. That's why expert input would help control my cost of self education. After all, these are all discontinued movers but can be found in use and for the most part you can still get parts. I'd love to get some leds. But for what I'm doing the cost is way over the top. Thanks for your most excellent suggestion.
I'm sorry I didn't finish responding to you. I was at work, was called away, and my incomplete response was posted some how. Then I went ahead and responded to another post. To continue,part of what I responded to after you applies. In a nut shell I'm just going to be "playing with" the movers for self education while trying to minimize the cost of repairing them. I don't expect to get some mint condition fixture for what these are selling for. I expect I'll get units that are in need of some sort of repair. But I don't want anything that would require a moving light school before I dig into it. I have been inside some VL 2500's and 3500's(?) with a trained all knowing tech. That was awhile ago now. This endeavor is along the line of hands on messing around without wrecking someone's gear. Thanks for responding to my post.
Just to add in my .02$ on this, since I have a good amount of experience with Studio 575 and Studio Beam.
Everything said about studio color is 100% correct, very easy to work on, and reasonably bright. That being said, if you have a problem with a Lamp Power supply or Logic card, those cost around $1000 to get replaced. OR, usually they are repairable by Lightparts or High End, for around $250.
If you are intending to run them on 120 volt, buy extra 16 amp ultra fast fuses, They will tend to blow fuses on the lamp power supply when run at 120 volt. My tours, which have around 300 shows a year, go through 2-5 fuses per season.
As for Studio Beam, over twice as bright, has an actual zoom, in addition to beam shaping. But you lose the static color wheel. (Still has a few static colors at the end of the CMY wheels if I remember correctly) These tend to go through shutter motors, since they are located at the back of the optical train, next to the lamp. And unfortunately, all the CMY and beam shaping wheels are mounted placed along the shaft of this motor, so replacing those motors requires a complete optical module disassembly.
The Lamp power supply is also a bit harder to get to, since the top box is much more compact in the Studio beam than in studio color.
The lamp is also nearly twice as expensive as well.
As a lighting designer, I would prefer the Studio beam, but the technician in me would go for the studio color. But both are good tools.
Everything said about studio color is 100% correct, very easy to work on, and reasonably bright. That being said, if you have a problem with a Lamp Power supply or Logic card, those cost around $1000 to get replaced. OR, usually they are repairable by Lightparts or High End, for around $250.
If you are intending to run them on 120 volt, buy extra 16 amp ultra fast fuses, They will tend to blow fuses on the lamp power supply when run at 120 volt. My tours, which have around 300 shows a year, go through 2-5 fuses per season.
As for Studio Beam, over twice as bright, has an actual zoom, in addition to beam shaping. But you lose the static color wheel. (Still has a few static colors at the end of the CMY wheels if I remember correctly) These tend to go through shutter motors, since they are located at the back of the optical train, next to the lamp. And unfortunately, all the CMY and beam shaping wheels are mounted placed along the shaft of this motor, so replacing those motors requires a complete optical module disassembly.
The Lamp power supply is also a bit harder to get to, since the top box is much more compact in the Studio beam than in studio color.
The lamp is also nearly twice as expensive as well.
As a lighting designer, I would prefer the Studio beam, but the technician in me would go for the studio color. But both are good tools.
That's exactly the input I'm looking for. Thanks for takeing the time for me.
Bubby4j
Active Member
If you don't mind something that's really old, but fairly cheap, you might consider some Intellabeam 700HXes. I don't know if they'd be complex enough for you, but I can assure you that I've found them relatively simple to work on. No fancy bells or whistles. The bulbs are expensive though ($90 each!). Lightparts has most of the parts you'd ever need for them.
Depending on how lucky you are, and I really was, you might could pick up 4 of them (that need some repair work) for under $100. If they don't need terribly many new parts you'd have them up and running in no time.
Depending on how lucky you are, and I really was, you might could pick up 4 of them (that need some repair work) for under $100. If they don't need terribly many new parts you'd have them up and running in no time.
Hot tip. For sure I'll look into them. Hell at that price, I wouldn't feel bad throwing them out when I'm done.Thanks.
Bubby4j
Active Member
Don't throw them out! They're actually pretty good fixtures even though they don't have many features. The mirrors are ultra fast, and I think the sounds they make when they're starting up is really neat. They aren't quiet fixtures for sure though, and so I don't know they'd be very well suited for theater. But for live music or light shows they'd be perfect!
When you're done with them, I'd bet there's students that would love to get their hands on them.
Yea, Remember, no remote focus on Ibeam. (Probably not a big deal, if you are looking at wash lights) Just in case it could be a deal breaker for you. And they are probably around half as bright as a studio color. And no color mixing.
Hell, the technobeam is brighter than the intellibeam, and only uses a 250 watt lamp. And you get focus, but still no color mix.
I think you can get studio colors for around $500 each, and thats probably the route I would go..
Oh, one more thing to say about studio colors.
Stick with 575's or S's. (Preferably the 575) Make sure you don't buy a Studio Color M.
Hell, the technobeam is brighter than the intellibeam, and only uses a 250 watt lamp. And you get focus, but still no color mix.
I think you can get studio colors for around $500 each, and thats probably the route I would go..
Oh, one more thing to say about studio colors.
Stick with 575's or S's. (Preferably the 575) Make sure you don't buy a Studio Color M.
Wattage is Ok indicator of brightness usually.
BUT Spot fixtures are optically inefficient compared to wash fixtures, and the IBeam is so much older than the rest it is very optically inefficient compared to anything even somewhat recent.
Technobeam has a very good reflector and lens setup that gets a decent amount of light for a small wattage. 3800 lumens in a narrow lens setup.
I would give you numbers for an Ibeam, but High End didn't ever list the lumen output as far as I know, but in my experience they are similar, but I find the Ibeam to be slightly less bright, but that could be a function of the different lamp color temperature between the 2 fixtures.
Compare this to a Studio color at 12000 lumens, and a Studio Beam at ~20000 lumens. (Sorry over stated the difference in an earlier post)
BUT Spot fixtures are optically inefficient compared to wash fixtures, and the IBeam is so much older than the rest it is very optically inefficient compared to anything even somewhat recent.
Technobeam has a very good reflector and lens setup that gets a decent amount of light for a small wattage. 3800 lumens in a narrow lens setup.
I would give you numbers for an Ibeam, but High End didn't ever list the lumen output as far as I know, but in my experience they are similar, but I find the Ibeam to be slightly less bright, but that could be a function of the different lamp color temperature between the 2 fixtures.
Compare this to a Studio color at 12000 lumens, and a Studio Beam at ~20000 lumens. (Sorry over stated the difference in an earlier post)
Field angle with a scanner is limited to around 25 degrees so they aren't a great choice for a wash light unless you have longish throw distances.
Good Point,
Intellibeam is 8, 12, or 16 degrees. Technobeam is 11-17 degrees
Studio Color 8 degree beam, 17 degree field, but it can be diffused beyond that.
And Studio Beam 8-15 degree beam, and 15-30 field, and can be diffused beyond that.
I was just making a point about their affordability. In fact I've also been putting together a small lighting package for bars,clubs, and small venues that 1 or 2 people can set up in about an hour. Currently it's made up of 24 martin robocolor 2's, 16 of the larger par 38 cans, and 2 of the old Colortran Scene Mastrer 60's and 1 Scene Master 120. Why 3 boards? Before the memory boards, back in the 70's rock shows were run on these 2 scene preset boards with submasters. These were manual "pile on" boards. As a song progressed you piled on more lights to the music. The tour with the most par cans were king rat. Well my plan is to do one offs locally with bands that you don't know or rehearse with or tech to. So prgramming time isn't there. So I take the 2 SM 60's and program them the same except I put 1/2 of the robocolor 2 "lamps" on one and 1/2 on the other. The 2 SM 60's go into an "A" and "B" DMX switch normally used to switch from a console to a back up console. The switch is the cross fader and 1 of the 60's is your "X" preset and the other is your "Y". The robocolor's are split between the 2 boards and identically focused. Because when I cross fade I hate the color scroll to another color. I want the color change to snap. Which brings up the SM 125. It's used only as a controller for color on the robocolor's. (I don't plug the lamp side into the robocolor boxes but into seperate dimmer packs) The robocolors focus in 4 areas. SL SR Center and Special. The Robocolors have 11 colors. So handles 1 thru 60 are 1/2 of the robos and page 2 is 61 thru 120 the other half. So handle 1,2,3,4 at 100% is SR Center SL and Special RED, handle 5,6,7,8 at 100% is SR Center SL and Special BLUE and so on. On page 2 or handle 61 62 63 64 is SR Center SL Special RED 65 66 67 68 at 100% is BLUE and so on. So when "X" robos are up you can preset "Y" robos to a color that comes up when you "cross bump" into "Y" and so on. The SM 125 is it's own separate DMX run. You color code the 125's handles so at a glance you know what color and area your setting on the fly. Same thing with the 2 SM 60's you color code the handles for the rest of the conventionals in groups of 4 handles which make up 4 looks for 1 song to pile on. So you have 4 piled on looks for 15 songs on each 60 useing the handles as submasters. So just as in the old days you can light on the fly without cue sheets or programmed looks in the memories or cues in a certain order or even trying to call them up out of order useing the key pad. It's quite simple and a little hard to explain. Mainly any look you want to bring up involves the handles to full and knowing what look your putting together at a glance of the controllers color codeing in groups of 4 handles on the fly. After the initial programming, it's plug and play no matter what band or songs in any order. There is no money to be made doing this. The bands aren't makeing any real money and if they are they would put that money into sound first. But for some free beer and maybe the chance to take home some babe what the hell. But seriously, it's a way of giving back locally to cover bands that will never see the big time but can for a night get a bit of a feeling of that big time production of an operated lighting rig. Oh ya a lot of these venues have little or no extra power so a pair of silent water cooled Honda 5500 geni's would power the lights. I'm not so sure about useing movers in this. It would involve another controller and I think is convoluted enough. But about throwing anything away, It would be great to either sell this off to a bar or club or just turn it over to some kid in college to keep the old school way of lighting bands alive. Some say I have to much time on my hands. This stuff is just a hobby for the hell of it. The gear is used and affordable. The controllers were about $100 bucks each and I have a backup 60. The robocolors ran about 2 to 400 for a set of 4. And I over time collected the par 38's for about $10 to $15 each. 4 pipe and base stands (2 front 2 back or side) and 4 prehung and pre wired frames with dimmer packs, power cable, and DMX . It's very simple once you put in the time on the prep.
Judge
Active Member
I have just used a bunch of Mac 600s on a show and they were plenty bright and had nice colors but if I recall had no zoom function, just a very primitive bream shaping thing, so that may be worth thinking about. I probably would avoid them in future because of that -- but at the time they were the only movers in town, so I had no choice.
Oh, so you're just looking for some clunky old lights to mess around with, How about some $300 Mac 250s:
Moving Lights
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