Manufacturing a moving light

[TechGeek]

Hey guys and gals!
I've been thinking of making my own moving light that's affordable for community theaters and schools, and is ideal on the included features. But I have no clue what goes into making one.

So, what do you guys know about manufacturing a moving light? How do I find a factory to make it? What's the typical cost?

I know it's going to be a lot of work to do this, but if it's possible then I'll do it!

 

[robmerow]

The features that come to mind would be smooth & quiet operation, color mixing, and variable diffusion, and motorized zoom or iris.

At the risk of being a downer, I can't help but point out that it's very unlikely that the the development, prototyping, materials, and production of such a fixture would come out (to the user) any less expensive than a S4 LED autoyoke with motorized iris and scroller for diffusion.

There is a reason that moving lights & DMX accessorries cost what they do (and not always just because the manufacturers want to be greedy or make money.) There is a relatively limited market in the grand scheme of the industry who would be interested in a theatrically-oriented low-budget fixture from a previously unknown manufacturer. Most small theaters and schools can get by with DMX accessories, or, if they can afford to invest in moving lights it's better to invest in more expensive, tried & true products with more features. This means the production quantities will be very small at first, resulting in a high production cost per fixture. This model will work against you as you are trying to build up a reputation of affordable at the same time the product cost is at it's peak.

I'm not saying that there arn't schools and theaters around the world who would jump at a sub $1000 instrument with these features - I would personally be a customer on day 1. But with the cost of components alone I'm not sure how realistically feasible it would be as a startup entity.

Keep us posted! If you invent a more affordable alternative to the Seachanger I'd also be a customer!

 

[RonHebbard]

Back in the latter 1970's, back when VL's were the only wigglers, we had a stage hand at the Stratford Shakespearean Festival, a member of IA 357, who had your same idea. Walter poured time, effort and money into his notion but, in spite of potentially having the festival's then three theatres as customers, I don't believe he was able to get past the prototype and nicely printed cut-sheets stage. There are still members of 357 who remember Walter's efforts and his prototype but I doubt you'll find many examples of 'Wally's Wiggle Lights' around. I'm not saying it's an unattainable goal but I firmly believe you're setting yourself a tough challenge, possibly tougher than you realize at this instant. Please keep us up to date on your progress. The VL lads started out with a similar idea and made it work so, clearly, it's possible.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[Footer]

Ya, agreed... the R&D cost for this type of thing is astronomical. Even if you go into it wanting to make it cheap it still has to work and not catch on fire. Getting those two things right is not easy.

However, there is hope for you. There are a ton of chinese companies that will do 100 fixture runs designed to your exact specs. Additionally, many of these companies do this without breaking any US patents so they can easily be imported and sold (that didn't used to be the case.... and there are still tons of companies that do build direct knock-offs). They'll do the R&D, they'll build the thing, and they'll ship it. You just have to do the last mile work and collect the money.

 

[egilson1]

There is also as @Footer mentioned the issue of patents. When LSD (Light and Sound Design) was working on the ICON moving light back in the 90's they spent tens of millions of dollars on legal fees to defend against lawsuits from VL for patent infringement. They finally ended up settling and licencing the parts they couldn't design around. At that point they were so far in the hole that the owners of LSD were more than happy when Christian Salvesen came knocking.

 

[RonaldBeal]

And don't forget UL listing. You won't be able to get insurance unless it is UL (or ETL) listed... and that starts at $10,000 and goes up from there

 

[soundlight]

There are many companies with design and technical experts who have already done this for you; there's a reason these things cost as much as they do. Between the R&D, sourcing, testing, listings, and other things, this is something best left to the experts.

 

[GoboMan]

I've had someone at work ask me "why does this light cost as much as a new car?!" I told them a lot of the same things already said above. So much time in planning, design, patents... You aren't necessarily paying for the light and the parts inside, but you are also paying the team who designed and made it happen.

 

[JimOC_1]

I see a 360W mover for $ 1.12/w (frequent sale price), from an established company with a good return policy. It may be a tough market to break into.

 

[Pie4Weebl]

I see a 360W mover for $ 1.12/w (frequent sale price), from an established company with a good return policy. It may be a tough market to break into.

What?

 

[RonHebbard]

Victor; I suspect we both can agree it's ludicrous but it's certainly an 'off the wall' way of looking at it.
Comparatively evaluating light sources on a 'cost per watt' basis while totally disregarding efficiency. Somewhat akin to evaluating meat by it's cost per pound while totally disregarding it's type or cut.
To play the ignorant devil's advocate game, why not? The 'low-lives' / uneducated of he audio world have been doing this for decades. How many times have you heard slime-ball audio sales folks loudly proclaiming 'this speaker only takes 150 watts while THIS one can take 300 watts, TWICE as much without even hinting at relative efficiency on a 'watts per meter' basis. I guess I'm out of line mentioning this in the lighting forum but the lighting forum covers lighting and electrics and electrical watts are still electrical watts whether their primary goal is the production of light or sound. The primary goal of a speaker is the production of sound. Comparatively evaluating them by how much raw power they can consume / absorb / survive without bursting into flames is no more ludicrous than Jim's concept of comparatively evaluating stage lighting fixtures based solely on how much they cost per electrical watt consumed.
You've got to admit Victor, it's probably never crossed your mind to compare fixtures that way when shopping. I know it's NEVER crossed mine.
Thanks for the giggle Jim. I suspect you posted as a 'tongue in cheek' concept but it's certainly an interesting point of view and THANK YOU again for the great giggles.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[Amiers]

I see a 360W mover for $ 1.12/w (frequent sale price), from an established company with a good return policy. It may be a tough market to break into.

Im also a little curious as to what company is selling movers for $403 that is established, with good QA & RMA and still in business.

 

[sandsmarc]

I've wondered at the seemingly ridiculous prices of these lights. Until I saw one taken apart. They are actually marvels of design and engineering. I don't think you are going to beat what is out there. Take a Rogue R2 Spot, which is a fabulous lower level cheap light in the scheme of things. You can get these for $1,500. And the prices are dropping, not going up, as time goes on.

 

[JimOC_1]

Hi Ron, I wish that were true.
The original poster was talking about low cost units for schools. He would come to the market with the same credentials as most other low cost providers. Those of us without budgets constantly struggle with what learning opportunities we can provide. When we purchased LED wash lights and chose Blizzard HotBox 5s, it was a (cost/watt)(vendor reputation) calculation.
I live in a different world than those of you I come here to learn from.
Best,

 

[RonHebbard]

Hi Jim; I find no fault with shopping on the basis of cost per lumen / cost per features, etcetera, but the concept that's STILL making me giggle is the notion of shopping for lights on the basis of cost per electrical watts consumed. You could easily find baseboard heaters with a pretty fair cost per power consumed ratio but, when working properly, they'd likely produce little light and a varying amount of useful heat.
Thanks again for your creative perspective on shopping for wiggle lights.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[MikeJ]

Im also a little curious as to what company is selling movers for $403 that is established, with good QA & RMA and still in business.

Typo, it's actually priced by watt-hour.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Cost of stage and studio lights by the watt hour? How is that meaningful?

 

[Malabaristo]

When we purchased LED wash lights and chose Blizzard HotBox 5s, it was a (cost/watt)(vendor reputation) calculation.

I think the confusion here is that while you might assume a fixture described as "7x15W RGBAW LEDs" (from the Blizzard website) will be brighter than one described as "7x12W RGBAW" (to make up an example), those numbers don't really tell you anything useful about the amount of light coming out the front. More efficient LEDs, electronics, or optics could make the nominally lower power fixture a better value. Of course, the challenge with the cheaper end of the product range is that you don't always get useful photometric information to compare different products.

 

[JimOC_1]

Hi Malabaristo,
Yes and yes, but you are talking to the guy who just finished cleaning up five 360Q 6 x 6’s. They were $20 each with lamps, clamps, and safety cables. I would prefer to get the school 50⁰ S4’s so we could use gels, but with used one’s going for ~$140/each, we would have gone without.

TechGeek
I hope you found some of this useful.
Good luck,

 

[RonHebbard]

Hi Malabaristo,
Yes and yes, but you are talking to the guy who just finished cleaning up five 360Q 6 x 6’s. They were $20 each with lamps, clamps, and safety cables. I would prefer to get the school 50⁰ S4’s so we could use gels, but with used one’s going for ~$140/each, we would have gone without.

TechGeek
I hope you found some of this useful.
Good luck,

Hello! "360Q 6 x 6’s." I recall 360 6 x 6's and 360Q 4.5 x 6's but I can't say I've ever met a 360Q 6 x 6. Are you sure of this?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.