Is buying used moving light fixtures worth it?

ececec

Member
I'm looking into buying some moving light fixtures for in-house stock. I only have a 6K budget and I don't think it would be wise to throw that into a single fixture.
usedlighting.com, amongst other sellers, sell used fixtures for hundreds that would have cost thousands brand new. Many of these units are described as being in "very good" condition, but what does this mean in practice? Is it realistic to expect that I can get at least 5 years of use out of these second-hand fixtures with minimal maintenance and the occasional in-house repair? I'm new to the used kit market and moving lights in general, so any advice or experiences would be helpful. Thanks.
 
I would do some research on the lamps the fixtures use - some older style lamps are getting harder to source at a reasonable cost. I would also stick with name brands and avoid any generic fixtures - you will be hard press to find parts for a cheap Chinese knockoff fixture. Depending on how old you are talking, I know older Martin fixtures (pre MAC2K) used to have issues with their wiring harnesses failing in their yokes - a very labor intensive repair - often the reason they were put to pasture.
Just some quick thoughts off the top of my head...
 
It depends on three factors:
1. the fixture itself and its propensity (or lack thereof) to fail
2. how well the fixtures have been previously maintained
3. your ability to continue maintenance or have them maintained by a shop

Used MLs can end up being a great value if you get the right deal. For example: VL1000/VL1100 Arc/Shutter units can be reliable units in the right cirumstances. If they were say used in a museum or other fixed installation and faithfully kept up they may be fine if a little basic. But boy if they had a rougher life they tend to be a real pain. Though comparatively mechanically and electronically simple compared to other fixtures they can be easy to get apart but then real difficult to get everything back together perfectly in my experience. Other fixtures, like Bruce points out, burn out certain parts that are complex to work on. Other fixtures simply don't have parts available for them anymore unless they are salvaged from other units. and budget brands like Elation may not even have factory support for them any longer. You may need to keep a spare parts unit or two around or find a company like Light Parts that does salvaging and keeps a stock around for this purpose from which to buy from. Some LED units may present an entirely different problem- if you order a package of Martin Auras there is no guarantee the color output from all of them will match. Some may have color shift from more hours of use.

Your mileage really can vary. Its also worth pointing out UsedLighting has two different types of sales they do. They either sell off their stock of certain fixtures that have reached their, meaning 4WALLs, service life or that their projects no longer need, or they broker sales for third party users. UsedLighting owned fixtures tend to reliably be in decent shape, come with a short warranty and some support whereas the Site Member sales you might have no idea what you're getting. You might get a great deal- I got a very lightly used 2 port ETC portable NET3 gateway for a steal and it still serves installed in a local theater over a decade later, or you can get a fixture that 6 months later goes on the repair bench possibly to never live again (I've also had this happen).
 
Definitely check lamp availability. There're some discharge lamps that were used in movers that were only made by one manufacturer who has withdrawn from the market (it's  not osram) and so any fixture that uses that lamp is a boat anchor.
 
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To avoid like VD at a frat party... Martin. Especially the 750 and 2000. Happiest days of my life as a manger were when we sold off our inventory of those. We had much better experiences with the 250.
 
I found 6x Martin Mac 250s for $1K on ebay from a reputable seller. 4 units fully operational and 2 with fbet issues. Does this sound too good to be true?
 
I found 6x Martin Mac 250s for $1K on ebay from a reputable seller. 4 units fully operational and 2 with fbet issues. Does this sound too good to be true?
No idea. I'm completely out of the LX side these days, but whatever you get, you will become acquainted with servicing them.
 
I found 6x Martin Mac 250s for $1K on ebay from a reputable seller. 4 units fully operational and 2 with fbet issues. Does this sound too good to be true?

FBET ERR I believe is an issue with the motor driver chip(s), but could also possibly be an obstruction or problem with the optical sensor. These things can be repaired, though I can't recall whether the motor driver chips are through-hole or SMD - I doubt they're socketed. Either way, keep in mind that the Mac 250 was a popular fixture when I was in high school over twenty years ago, so it will be like buying a car of a similar age. If you're spending your own money, it's a gamble you may be willing to take. I don't think I'd spend $1k of my organization's money for fixtures that old. If they end up being money pits, you don't want your higher-ups to begin questioning your credibility when it comes to future expenditures. That said, the price you listed does seem average and even on the low side for those fixtures, even today - unless you need to have them shipped, which could also be an expensive endeavor.
 
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You should contact a big lamp distributor such as Bulbtronics, Kennedy Webster, Techni-lux, Barbizon, etc. and see about the availability of the MSD 250/2 lamp for those MAC 250s. That is a very old lamp. You would want to make sure they weren't discontinued by Signify (Philips). You are much better off (IMHO) going with a fixture made in the last 10 years as the lamps are much more likely to be active and available for some time still.
 
I'm pretty sure that there is a popular Robe fixture that used a highish power (600W) discharge lamp that was only manufactured by GE/Tungsram (not Osram) and since they pulled out of the entertainment market there is  no alternative lamp. It's that kind of scenario you want to guard against.
 
I think, in general, buying used fixtures can be highly rewarding. BUT, you have to be comfortable working on them, or have someone that is. It doesn't hurt to keep a few parts fixtures on the shelves as well for all those cheap parts that fail that a are a devil to source.

The other thing that you want to cover is details on the specific fixture. Do NOT buy whatever has the best deal in front of you. Every fixture has the parts that fail early and often and their own reocurring problems. Figure out what those are, and if you're comfortable dealing with them. If you think a fixture doesn't have them, then you just haven't done enough research yet. We'd all be happy to help you with details on specific fixtures if you have something you're looking at.
 
I agree and echo everyone above.
Buy a single fixture type with known lamp availability, and then keep buying that same line. The ability to diagnose a problem without even looking (sometimes listening) is an incredible skill to have. And having spares of motors, color wheels, belts, and exterior housings is amazing.
Before you go looking online, call your local rental shops and see if they're retiring anything. You'll save a bundle on shipping, and they might make you a better deal because they don't have to pay the brokerage fee.
I did this with some VL2000s and I got 12 for the price of 8 and I got road cases.
Ended up being like $147 each.
 
I agree and echo everyone above.
Buy a single fixture type with known lamp availability, and then keep buying that same line. The ability to diagnose a problem without even looking (sometimes listening) is an incredible skill to have. And having spares of motors, color wheels, belts, and exterior housings is amazing.
Before you go looking online, call your local rental shops and see if they're retiring anything. You'll save a bundle on shipping, and they might make you a better deal because they don't have to pay the brokerage fee.
I did this with some VL2000s and I got 12 for the price of 8 and I got road cases.
Ended up being like $147 each.

And if you get it from them, you likely have the phone number of the repair person, and can just pick their brain about common problems. Usually they're happy to help, and happy that those repairs aren't their problem anymore. Good chance they've got a pile of carcasses out back that they'd be willing to sell you for cheap if they're clearing out a fixture line.
 
I found 6x Martin Mac 250s for $1K on ebay from a reputable seller. 4 units fully operational and 2 with fbet issues. Does this sound too good to be true?
I'd sooner buy some Shehds or Beetopper 120/150W LED Spots than used MAC 250s if that's the class of light you're looking at. Search "120w moving head led spot" and "150w moving head led spot" on eBay and Amazon, see what comes up, read the reviews. Buying lamp fixtures these days isn't something I'd recommend.

With a $6K budget though, you could get in to some better fixtures. Look at the ADJ Focus Spot line and the Eliminator Stryker Spot (surprisingly full featured light for the price, and Eliminator is about the same quality as the no-name brands but has the backing of ADJ to deal with service better), and look at the Chauvet Intimidators and low end Rogues.

What fixtures will they be going up against? What else is in your inventory? What's the use case?
 
Mention of 250w lamps, I have lots of stock as with lots of others to a point that I'm literally paying to despose of brand new lamps properly... just for shelf space, and they have not moved in years. Still have some of the odd ones like a 575w incancescent retrofit for arch light modification and some really old lamps, as with some bulk of lamps left for popular fixtures which "suddenly went away from active stock." I'm the lamp buyer for the company and before the pandemic, dependant on usage, I would keep 100 or 200 lamps in stock for any lamp stock I saw falling low. Was easier in the Mac 250-Mac 600 days in getting stuck with lamps now, though back in those days 50 lamps each would be a lot. Less than 100 Mac 2K lamps in stock would worry me.

I learned in emails that my shop is selling off un-tested moving light gear recently including on the above third party website. I'm upset with that but also fine with that. Our gear is well maintained for touring overall, though in conventional lighting resale I have more involvement with, I have been at times upset with what I could change or not in what I would change sold.


My main thing is ballast issues in general with all brands - ballast life.. I see it a lot on BMFL fixtures lately but also possibly on Sharpee fixtures amomgst others due to ballast life.

Life of fixture is often it's ballast. BMFL fixtures are at their age of life and often the cause of failure. As with the in general concept... every time you put a perfectly good lamp into a bad lamp socket, it will last 100 hours less concept I established as a concept in study.

Beyond that for the dual ended Martin fixtures like the Mac 2K, Mac 2K XB or Mac 700, it's the lamp socket that under the manual is a lamp over - installed per protocol for good lamp sockets. This includes the VL fixtures using the lamp given these fixtures don't when shutters closed dim down... VL fixtures wear out lamp sockets fast.

I really grew at least as lamp buyer and bad lamp inspector to like the VL-2K lamp once it got sustainable. Better lamp sockets, and changed ballasts. Than we sold them off and I was stuck with lots of lamps for them.

Mark can explain various other technical issues in "upgrades/downgrades" manufacturers have done one could watch for in inspecting the fixtuer for... gee that's a problem. Is that what you are buying... like upgraded to "studio" mode... and not fixed from that fixture problem? Were the filters changed after that?

Lots of used gear to look into in recieving gear - the easiest is what software upgrade was done. Inspect the lamps and sockets, expect a bad ballast in what you are sold - how old is it in having been changed? When were the lamp sockets changed? You are buying it, service record of the fixture? What were the last three lamp replacement reports on them? (I can provide it in detecting a problem).

My current department project, amongst many projects working on and coming is some 2Kw Nook Lights from Mole Richardson. This was sort of circular informational project for me personally. Project Managers took my advice... than nothing about proposal in me fabridcating the light best suited for the need I recommended. Bought from used stock from somewhere. Proper choice for my department to learn of these new fixtures to make them ours. Of eight fixtures, 5 were in perfect condiction. One needs further attention in re-wiring, another needs spring lamp socket attention in adding a spacer, the next yet to go to. Can do all, and TBA the next acquied fixture in it
s needs. Incandescent fixtures I specilize in including these I have never worked on before.

Bought fixtures even in workable condion require the buyer in buying them to do their leg work for the price.
 
Thank you all for your suggestions/advice. I would say I'm fairly well equipped for repairing basic mechanical faults and wiring issues, assuming spare parts are available. My main concern is in troubleshooting and repairing issues relating to the electronic components or PCB. I really don't want to spend my time trying to understand why the head isn't panning only to identify that the stepper driver IC is blown and needs replacing. And without a schematic, this only becomes more difficult. If I can avoid soldering work altogether, even better. I would hope that PCB related issues are the least likely point of failure, but I'm sure somebody here can advise me on that.

I think for starters, I'm going to purchase a single MAC 250 being offered by a reputable hire house for $150. The unit has been maintained and is in full working order. This should hopefully give me an idea of what's involved in looking after moving lights, and if it dies a few months later, no big deal. $150 isn't a massive loss.
 
I would way that if you're not comfortable/not interested in component level repair and soldering, the Mac 250 is a terrible choice. It is a great fixture, solid as a tank, but is ancient in the world of moving head lighting. Parts are scarce and expensive. The only economical way to run a fleet of them is to understand them top to bottom. Better to spend up to something a little more expensive. Remember, those lights use to RENT for that price. There's a reason they're so cheap.
 
> I would way that if you're not comfortable/not interested in component level repair and soldering, the Mac 250 is a terrible choice.

What sort of component level repair would you expect from the Mac 250?
 
Yes?

I have 22 bodies in my building right now. My repair department decided it was only cost effective to repair 6, even with all the other fixtures as donor/parts repairs. Fans will be an issue if you ever get them at the wrong voltage. Wiring harnesses will need repair. Ship has given you great insight into the lamps and sockets for those. Ignitors won't be component repair, but they frequently go out. The biggest problem will be keeping the main logic boards running. The motor drivers are pretty resilient on these, as are the motors themselves. Anything and everything on those main logic boards is suspect at this point. I'd expect all the caps will need replacing, and who knows what else has blown or is on the edge of it.
 
Happy to replace a few caps, as long as they're thru-hole!

Starting to look like the Mac 250 might not be the best choice. I'll keep looking for a more recent fixture. Thanks.
 

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