DMX Rack or DMX Pack

Not to hijack the thread, but what, exactly, is wrong with Elation dimmers?

epimetheus said:

I disagree. First, an SR48 is not 400A max, it's actually 1000A. Second, 400A is pretty restrictive for (96) 2.4k dimmers. If you're going to go to the trouble of installing a 96 circuit rack, don't hobble it's power feed. At 400A (320A with derating) you're forcing yourself into 50% diversity if the rack has (96) 2.4k dimmers. Your diversity would have to be even less if you had all 50A or 100A dimmers. 50% diversity might be reasonable if you've got multiple racks, but if you've got only one, then I'd guess there might be times when you'll want more than half your circuits usable. Or at least at some point in the future.

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Actually, an SR48 is not 400A.

It's not 1000A.

It's 800A.

Cheers

ST

STEVETERRY said:

Actually, an SR48 is not 400A.

It's not 1000A.

It's 800A.

Cheers

ST

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The installation guide says the maximum current rating is 1000A per phase. Though now that I look at, I don't see a way to get more than 800A per phase of modules though.

sully151 said:

Not to hijack the thread, but what, exactly, is wrong with Elation dimmers?

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Do a search for Elation this has been covered several times, and not to bash any company but Elation Dimmers have a set category of users, small clubs and DJ's who have the financial backbone to replace said dimmers if they go wrong (which they tend to do), They don't have the quality control (Which is why they are cheaper) but they are mass produced which means even cheaper. Their market isn't really the high abuse situations of a theater setting but more of a DJ is within reach most of the time to either replace or make sure they don't get too much dust and grime in them.

/hijack

peacefulone61 said:

icewolf08 said:

With your current system, do you cable all of your units back to the dimmers or are there circuits and raceways throughout the theatre that are either connected directly to the dimmers or to a patch panel? If the circuits between the dimmers and the lighting positions already exist then installing a rack is certainly the best option.

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There are stage pin Boxes already set in throughout the house and the stage (most of them are just boxes but no power is run to them) Half of the circuits are Directly tied into the dimmers and Half are Run through a patch panel. The house dimmers are on a separate system with seprate controls that require to operate just to dim the house lights, not counting a Board op to run the rest of the system.

The Board is an Expression 48/96 that is wired in a way that defy logic and i have been told in previous post on CB that actually cannot work. There are Mac 500s in the system as well but are somehow the control dimmers for pan tilt and color are assigned to some of the hard patched dimmers. so i change the color and a light on stage turns on as well.

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Given that you already have the copper running through the theatre, the best solution is to do an installed rack. That being said, you should contact your local theatre suppliers (Barbizon, High Output, ALPS, even Production Advantage) and have them come in, look at the layout and put together an estimate. While we can all spout off what we think are good ideas, none of us has seen the space and the system. I am sure that these companies would be happy to send someone out to look at everything and tell you what would work best.

As others have said, you probably want to stay away from DJ type gear. There are distributed dimming systems that are good, but you won't save big bucks on them. Buy from a reputable theatre supplier and you will not only get a system that suits your needs, but you will have someone (hopefully local) that you can call when you need help or service.

epimetheus said:

The installation guide says the maximum current rating is 1000A per phase. Though now that I look at, I don't see a way to get more than 800A per phase of modules though.

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Congratulations, you found a typo! It's 800A and it will be changed in the install manual.

ST

sully151 said:

Not to hijack the thread, but what, exactly, is wrong with Elation dimmers?

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Potential reliability issues aside, DJ dimmers are generally rated for 600w per channel, but here's the catch. Total output at any time cannot exceed 1800w. Meaning, you can't load that pack with 4 575w Source Fours and run them all at the same time. You also can't use your 1,000w pars or Source Four 750's. Powering CYC lights would be a problem, and twofer'ing is right out.

Elation, American DJ and Chauvet dimmer packs are great for sticking in a set for powering a practical, but they will fail prematurely if loaded to 100% and used day-in/day-out.

Good to know about Elation. Thanks. We had 2 Elation dimmer packs donated to us for a touring show. They worked fine for the 6 Par cans we used, but I will look for something better to put in the permanent space

sk8rsdad said:

...The future (and the present) of stage lighting is some combination of conventional, LED, and ML lights. Investing in a dimmer rack may not be as cost-effective as running switched power and communications wire (DMX and ethernet) everywhere, especially if you have to run the data wire everywhere anyway to support all those newfangled DMX devices. LEDs have integrated dimming, as do most MLs so the dimmers are primarily for the conventionals. ...

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Perhaps some will see the day a facility has no installed dimmer racks, and one of these,

Light Pack Dimmer | Strand Lighting - A Philips Group Brand
or similar, attached to the yoke of every active conventional fixture.

STEVETERRY said:

Congratulations, you found a typo! It's 800A and it will be changed in the install manual.

ST

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I don't suppose that find would warrant any swag?

Yeah and maybe me too for uhh. helping... ? ahhaha good find epimetheus!

derekleffew said:

Perhaps some will see the day a facility has no installed dimmer racks, and one of these,
View attachment 4343
Light Pack Dimmer | Strand Lighting - A Philips Group Brand
or similar, attached to the yoke of every active conventional fixture.

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I think DMX has to go the way of the dodo before these become cost effective for a facility. All those XLR connectors and cables can get expensive really quickly. Putting a plot together would be a challenge for novice users who aren't used to addresses changing all over the venue. I could see something like sACN and ethernet over power line working well for smaller venues assuming all those switched harmonics don't wreak havoc on the communications.

ETC and Philips could start selling conventionals with integrated dimming today if they thought there was a market for it. Add in a 50W 24VDC 4-wire PS option and you'd have instant Gafftaper method lighting everywhere.

It's probably just a little too ahead of it's time for widespread adoption but all the pieces exist.

If anybody acts on this I claim the patent.

Maybe this discussion should be moved to it's own thread?