Vintage Lighting Name that Lamp
- Thread starterMrsFooter
- Start date
A Kliegl Bros. 1357 to be exact. Four manufacturer-approved lamps, all 1000w, brightest to dimmest:
DWS, FER, EHS, DWT.
I'd bet that yours is a DWT, which has the longest life (2000 hrs.), and thus IIRC was the most popular.
Nothing to say other than I would call it mid-century, or first generation halogen lighting fixture. Not old, or perhapls elder in fixture. Looks like an awkward night becasuse it's mostly the same filaments, different bases in advancement of the same working capsule.
Measure it's LCL (the point of contacts) not the ceramic - though either measurement would be a rough gauge for a RSC (R7s-18) lamp.
Do you mean:
1) Kliegl ?1357/6W 6x27° Leko pre-1978: 1Kw DWT/EHS/FER RSC Lamp. Axial Base, Missing Iris Slot noted for 1978 Model, Step Lens. I got one I think in the museum that I am yet to confirm details of what it is. Photo's of the fixture in question etc. would help confirm what I have.
1) Kliegl #1357 6x12 Leko, c. 1975, 1Kw RSC Base, Step Lens, Pattern Slot, 8" Body stepped down to 6" lens, Broom handle Back.
Kliegl and Colortran (until they went to sleep on this concept) did a really good actual drafting instead of computer design (not yet invented) for dual ended halogen/quartz lamp design. They were the ETC of their c.1964 day. Like with the HPL designed arouned the Leko designed, the high technology of RSC 1964 halogen/quartz lamp Leko design was high technology. You really can get a good bench focus out of a RSC lamp in a Leko of that period!
After 1964, Kliegl started lagging behind technology seemingly. Single ended quartz/halogen versions of the lamps came out for Leko's by 1974 for replacement of the incandescent lamp axial Leko design in making the RSC version obsolete or at least equal to them. The late 60's or early 70's, the quartz/halogen upgrade to radial Lekos was invented and made non-halogen fixtures about as useful. It's conversion to a halogen version of a lighting axial fixture was in the cards already, with it's filament in the correct position. Just with the HPL lamp to shorten that filament around 15 years later.
So photo's of what you are putting these lamps into, and more say next to a ruher would be good. There are at lest 3 or four sizes of the RSC lamp. One, the 3.1/8" size used by Colortran for some wash lights is very rare.
Measure it's LCL (the point of contacts) not the ceramic - though either measurement would be a rough gauge for a RSC (R7s-18) lamp.
Do you mean:
1) Kliegl ?1357/6W 6x27° Leko pre-1978: 1Kw DWT/EHS/FER RSC Lamp. Axial Base, Missing Iris Slot noted for 1978 Model, Step Lens. I got one I think in the museum that I am yet to confirm details of what it is. Photo's of the fixture in question etc. would help confirm what I have.
1) Kliegl #1357 6x12 Leko, c. 1975, 1Kw RSC Base, Step Lens, Pattern Slot, 8" Body stepped down to 6" lens, Broom handle Back.
Kliegl and Colortran (until they went to sleep on this concept) did a really good actual drafting instead of computer design (not yet invented) for dual ended halogen/quartz lamp design. They were the ETC of their c.1964 day. Like with the HPL designed arouned the Leko designed, the high technology of RSC 1964 halogen/quartz lamp Leko design was high technology. You really can get a good bench focus out of a RSC lamp in a Leko of that period!
After 1964, Kliegl started lagging behind technology seemingly. Single ended quartz/halogen versions of the lamps came out for Leko's by 1974 for replacement of the incandescent lamp axial Leko design in making the RSC version obsolete or at least equal to them. The late 60's or early 70's, the quartz/halogen upgrade to radial Lekos was invented and made non-halogen fixtures about as useful. It's conversion to a halogen version of a lighting axial fixture was in the cards already, with it's filament in the correct position. Just with the HPL lamp to shorten that filament around 15 years later.
So photo's of what you are putting these lamps into, and more say next to a ruher would be good. There are at lest 3 or four sizes of the RSC lamp. One, the 3.1/8" size used by Colortran for some wash lights is very rare.
These are the big boys in question.
Attachments
Neither of those appear on this list of Kliegl Bros. fixtures.
@MrsFooter, your fixtures are 1357/6 or 1357/6W. The "6" is a 6x8 step lens with three rings and open in the center (first picture in this post). The "6W" is a 6x3 3/4 step lens with five rings and a small center (second picture in this post).* JPG images of cut sheets here: https://klieglbros.com/catalogs/SpecSheets/individualdatasheets.htm .
*Although the cut sheet for the 1357/6W says "dual 6" diameter heat resisting plano convex lenses," I've never seen that. It's very possible I've never encountered a 1357/6W; only a 1355/6W (whose cut sheet indicates a 6x3 3/4" step lens).
Anecdote time:
Hot shot in college LD (me), at a new to him venue, designs an opera; doesn't know there's a difference between 6 and 6W, they're all 1355's, right? During focus can't figure out why half the fixtures are twice as wide as others. The frontlight wash is splotchy as heck! The lighting sucks. Later, he discovers
a) the lenses are in different places in the lens tube,
b) one lens has more rings than the other.
Heretofore and ever-after, the fixture are designated 6x8 (approx. 6x16) and 6x3 3/4 (between a 6x9 and 4.5x6.5).
Rumor has it there's also a 1355/6XW (extra-wide) but I never encountered one, and Kliegl Bros. doesn't list it.
The end.
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Yep, got one I have in here in collection. 8" body snubbed down to 6" lens. This theoretically due to heat in making a 1Kw fixture for design purposes. Was not aware of a c. 1957 Leko using a RSC lamp, and no model #1357 in the Kliegl catalogue. https://klieglbros.com/catalogs/T61C57/t61c57.htm No listing in any catalogues until this: https://klieglbros.com/catalogs/SpecSheets/1357/13576c76a.jpg from 1978.
Lots of gaps in the catalogues, but I would think early 1970's for creation of the fixture. Besides, 1964 Kliegl was advertisised as their first Quartz Leko - it was the 3.5" #1340 and well advertized that year.
Not a useful looking light, and I did not bench focus mine. Still though. If I'm correct and think I am, It's using a 3.3/4" LL lamp no longer on the market.
Looking for my Photometric's Handbook... Not on my shelf!!! (The heck it go... as with my books on the Iriquois fire?) Darned Pandemic in loaning out books and or family needing more room in the house so I put my books elsewhere so as to find.)
I don't have time in the next week or two so as to pull down my fixture and look at what lamp it is using, remind me please if interested. If 3.3/4" LL, it would be a DXW, DXN and more.
The 1978 catalogue has the fixture listed & re-based with single ended different lamps. My own notes confirm this #1357/6 & 1357I/6 (Radial) ERS: DWT, FER.. More research to come into this dual ended verses single ended fixture...
A thought though to the designers of this fixture, or more properly to the Colortran and Kliegl c.1964 inventors of the RSC based 3.1/2" Quartz/Halogne Leko. Those of us in advanced drafting must remember back to the class on drafting up a three dimensional "Point Source of a line", and it's drama in figuring that out. Now once hand drafted it, imagine optically placing it within an ellipsodial reflector so as to bench focus. Those were some very skilled drafts people back than.
Lots of gaps in the catalogues, but I would think early 1970's for creation of the fixture. Besides, 1964 Kliegl was advertisised as their first Quartz Leko - it was the 3.5" #1340 and well advertized that year.
Not a useful looking light, and I did not bench focus mine. Still though. If I'm correct and think I am, It's using a 3.3/4" LL lamp no longer on the market.
Looking for my Photometric's Handbook... Not on my shelf!!! (The heck it go... as with my books on the Iriquois fire?) Darned Pandemic in loaning out books and or family needing more room in the house so I put my books elsewhere so as to find.)
I don't have time in the next week or two so as to pull down my fixture and look at what lamp it is using, remind me please if interested. If 3.3/4" LL, it would be a DXW, DXN and more.
The 1978 catalogue has the fixture listed & re-based with single ended different lamps. My own notes confirm this #1357/6 & 1357I/6 (Radial) ERS: DWT, FER.. More research to come into this dual ended verses single ended fixture...
A thought though to the designers of this fixture, or more properly to the Colortran and Kliegl c.1964 inventors of the RSC based 3.1/2" Quartz/Halogne Leko. Those of us in advanced drafting must remember back to the class on drafting up a three dimensional "Point Source of a line", and it's drama in figuring that out. Now once hand drafted it, imagine optically placing it within an ellipsodial reflector so as to bench focus. Those were some very skilled drafts people back than.
The 3.5" 1340 or the 1357? I can't recall ever trying to bench focus either one. Pretty sure a lesson in frustration.
Sorry, incorrect. All lamps listed below are still available.
The DWT used in the 1357 has a MOL (Maximum Overall Length, no LCL specified) of 5 5/8".
DXW MOL is 3 3/4". Used in open-face TV/film fixtures:
- Mole-Richardson Molequartz Mickey-Mole
- ARRI Arrilite 1000
- Sachtler Reporter 1000
- Strand Ianebeam 1000
- Strand Redhead 1000
Looking into this...
Kliegl's 1978 cut sheets, https://klieglbros.com/catalogs/SpecSheets/individualdatasheets.htm , all list the 1357 as using double-ended RSC R7s DWS, FER, EHS, DWT.
I don't know where you got that the 1357 was ever "re-based with single ended different lamps."
If one wants single-ended, one uses the 1355 series, radial, and NOT listed for 1000W. EHD 500w, EHG 750w TP22 lamps.
More amazing to me, is how just a little later, some yokels in Utah were able to design and manufacture a parallel, spherical, ellipsoidal reflector. From glass. And axial to boot.
