Vintage Lighting 2K Capitol spot project

[Gage]

Well... I tell myself I have enough projects and I tell myself I'm running out of storage, but things keep coming my way. Today a capitol spot, tomorrow it could be a Trouper... oh wait. I plan on turning this spot into a display piece. The goal is to get it as close to its original condition as possible, and then non-destructively throw a much smaller modern lamp in it for some light. It seems fairly complete, but every bit of marketing material I can find mentions similar models having a reflector. On this fixture there is no obvious mounting point for a reflector, best I can tell it probably clamped onto the rod that moves the base around... if it ever had a reflector in the first place. It's the only real problem I have to overcome on this project, the thing mostly just needs a good teardown and re-paint. I would love to know if this fixture originally had a reflector, and if it did, what I might use as a replacement. A 65q reflector came to mind originally, but I suspect it will be far too small for the task at hand.

As always, updates will come as I make progress on the project.

 

[JonCarter]

Does the vertical plate mounted on the rear of the lamp carriage appear to have had anything fastened to it? Bolt hole(s), maybe? The reflector (if there was one) would have moved with the lamp. Oh, and love those spring hinges on the door--very helpful when re-lamping a hot lamp. In high school we called those "follow spots."

 

[Gage]

There is no obvious mounting point for reflector hardware on the lamp carriage as far as I can tell... in fact the more I look at it, the more I wonder if this lamp carriage was fabricated later in the fixtures's life. I've attached an image from a similar model and it is built completely differently. Although it's done well, there are signs that point to this not being factory work. The welds and the very slight misalignment of the rod attached to the carriage in reference to the hole in the rear of the fixture make more sense now. The only thing confusing me is why someone would do this. I can't imagine a scenario that would damage the original part badly enough to fully write it off. Anyway... I think it's safe to assume the fixture did have the reflector pictured in the reference image at some point, even if I can't be sure it's the exact same model. I just need to find what I can use as a substitute. The mount will be no problem, I can work that out, but I'm unsure what to use as a substitute reflector.

 

[JonCarter]

If you're going to restore, you need a spherical reflector about the diameter of the lens (or of the lamp - looks like a G40) with a spherical radius around 3", mounted about 3" behind the center of the lamp. And it looks like the lamp carriage is sliding on the sheet metal bottom of the lamp house, rather than on tue usual rods or rails of some kind, right?

 

[almorton]

Could it have had a crude flat white reflector, similar to one of the early strand pattern designs?

 

[microstar]

Here is a bargain brand new reflector that might work...only $1.99.

Leviton FR2TH-RFL Reflector for 8-Inch Fresnel

Leviton FR2TH-RFL Reflector for 8-Inch Fresnel Leviton FR2TH-RFL Reflector for 8" Fresnel.

www.pssl.com

 

[JonCarter]

An 8" (1.5 - 2 kW) Fresnel probably would have a G48 lamp (6" diameter,) a little larger than your G40's 5" dia.. That reflector looks like it world work if suitable mounting that places the center of the sphere about 4.5"-5" behind the filament center and on axis of the lamp & lens. (Look unusual tho - I've never seen a reflector with what looks like a die-cast bracket. Hope it will stand up to the heat.) Oh, and the price is right!

 

[Gage]

Well, the price certainly was right. I cleared out their whole inventory... all 2 of them. Even if I have to ditch the cast bracket it's still cheaper than anything I can get anywhere else. PSSL has a local showroom as well so no shipping costs... although it's likely gas will cost more than the price I paid for both reflectors combined. If I end up having to go a different direction... oh well, I'm in it for less than the price of lunch.

 

[JonCarter]

Please keep us updated on the project, thanks!

 

[Gage]

Well... I'm glad they were a good price. Looks like I got two new salad bowls for the kitchen. Oh well, into the cupboard they go, maybe I'll need them for something later on. I have some really beat-up strand 1k fresnels sitting somewhere, my memory says the reflectors were way too small, but I might need to go and measure. Or maybe @ship in his infinite lighting wizardry knows of a readily available part that's near the right size?

In other news, I have a mounting design thought up that should allow for good adjustability and require little to no modification to anything currently in the fixture. When I get the hardware in expect an update there as well.

 

[ship]

Bell tolled in signing onto my computer and chiming in. Thanks, I love seeing such lights.

First a date... Between 1910 and 1916 most likely for the "Junior", but possibly up to say 1926. The reason for the side access door, and the other side Rosette mounted yoke was so as to mount the carbon arc rods. Wish there were more pictures... much less this was mine - I don't have one of these. I would date it to 1910/1911 on initial seeing of it.

Not confirming without more photo's that the lamp base was not original, just that it's the carbon arc design PC that has a possibly first generation incandescent lamp in it. Added as upgrade or was factory spec. TBA more photo's.

Reflector question... Reflectors back than were an option which might add say 10% to the output. I agree with the above observations of science experiment like reflector mounts and the small size of it. Will have been a silvered glass reflector, not so sure it will have been mounted to the lamp socket instead of the carriage, but I have not had one of these fixture brand before. Remember back than again, reflectors were at best an option - a later option than 1910 due to the heat of carbon arc's this fixture was designed for. Such fixtures until at least 1916 did not have a reflector option.

Also, the 500w G-40 lamp this fixture until 1916 with the 1,000w lamp. Filaments at times leaned some, and it was a large filament on a screw base so where the large filament focused... might not be useful in optimizing with a reflector. Is that a 5.1/2" and thick lens? This indicates earlier than later.

Never seen that lamp socket before, is there an up/down adjustment for it?

Your observations of mis-alignment of rods and carriage etc. might with more photo's say it was a carbon arc fixture - as per it's overall look. Factory initial upgrade or field upgrade. Your photo evidence of a reflector I would tend to ignore for your fixture. Do you have one? No. Is it age appropiate to not have one? Yes. Not having seen a lamp socket like that before, with bracket around it I cannot say other than expansion/contraction was understood back than, your other fixture photo is very interesting. But given I don't think I have an extra 3" silvered glass reflector as Jon Carter very accurately posted, I would go without as also very accurate to the fixture.

 

[Gage]

Bell tolled in signing onto my computer and chiming in. Thanks, I love seeing such lights.

Thank you very much for your reply ship. I just pulled the lens and measured it, it's 6" in diameter so possibly a later model although with the age who knows if it's original to the fixture. The front casting and riveted stops for the lens clip certainly suggest something thicker was there. As found and pictured it has a 2,000w lamp, unsure if that's grossly oversized in this application. No vertical adjustments for the lamp socket, it sits where it sits (which actually appears to be 1/4" to 1/2" too low). The carriage it sits on appears handmade, but very well made.

I'm very glad to hear what you have to say about the reflector. I suspected it may have been "optional", but hearing that optional is historically accurate really helps. You'll get your wish soon, I'm going to upload tons of pictures before tearing it down and giving it a good refurb (as well as finishing the mini asbestos abatement). Of course, all the fine folks here will get the first look at it in its fully restored state as well.

One last question for now. Any idea what the painted finish on this light would have originally been? It's been brush-painted several times by the looks of it. Would a matte black be correct, or would something with a bit more gloss like a japanned finish be a better fit? There's also evidence that leads me to believe the interior was painted silver at some point in time. Unsure if that was factory or someone later on hoping to increase output. It certainly appears to be the first layer of paint in there.

 

[ship]

I have dealt with a number or 1910-1928 fixtures over the years. Some I'm kind of ashamed I painted black, because they had coloring on them I didn't research further. Red and yellow. Japan black will have required at the time a varnish which would be flammable, but I have seen indications of also on old lights. Why put the extra effort into it. Most all fixtures of the era I have seen are non-gloss even not semi-gloss. Lighting fixtures were lighting fixtures not display props. Be accurate with what you clean as to what if necessary is a sand blasting and total re-paint. If not sand blasting back to bare metal, a rust presentive coating is much better to do.

That said, there was a lot of them with not paint, just a oil coating steel finish also.

Oh' no, if it's not a 5.1/2" lens... you do not no matter how barbaric what's been done to it have anyone messing with that. Banking still on "barbaric" type of construction, rather than modification. I have silver and solder braised some of this era of lights together. What might seem repair or upgrade, could be factory spec. - this including your glide rails. Though them being out of alignment is difficult.

Painted silver, the interior of the fixture why? Because someone without engineering experience thought that if you painted the interior of light silver... 1916-1929 concept, but later followed into the 1960's... you get more light.

General reflectance is different than specific reflectance and single source optics. I have a fixture in my collection from one of my Mentors. He cut down a later model than yours' to 2/3's its length. Somehow magically if you cut the body of the fixture shorter, it would become a wider focus lighting fixture? Stuff like that happened perhaps in the painting you describe. Such reflector coating did develope before 1928.
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Lots to decode and figure out on your light. Or is it lights - that if done to many is important.

 

[Gage]

As requested, more photos below! They are in thumbnail form, fingers crossed they enlarge properly when clicked on.

There's enough corrosion and rust in areas that I feel a teardown and re-finish would be helpful in preserving what is here. The outside will get stripped down and given a coat of high-temp rust preventative, followed by a light coat of high-temp matte black. The rust preventative I use has an undesirable brownish look to it. All red accents currently present on the fixture will be kept the same color. Still debating on going black for the inside, or going for silver. It certainly appears to be the first coat of paint in there, but the teardown and paint stripping will give me more answers on that.

While taking pictures I discovered the lamp socket does have a vertical adjustment. The screw that loosens the clamp was just tucked forward enough for me to miss it. The slides the lamp carriage rides in are pretty chewed up, I think this and the excess paint brushed into them are a larger cause of friction than any real misalignment. I'm confident I can get things moving smoothly again. The rod used for adjustment is still a bit too low, but given the age of the fixture, I would much rather live with that considering the alternative is cutting and re-tacking it higher up.

If you need anything more specific regarding pictures, measurements, or other info, I will be happy to give it to you. CB seems to get cranky at anything over 10 attachments per post.

 

[ship]

Wow! oh' Wow! oh, Wow!!! You seem to have one of the most interesting fixtures I have ever seen.. and equal to my 1926 Preveyer PC's in the past which indicated an internal frosted lens where no concept of such a lens was presented before. The switch on the back of your fixtures says studio (movie use), but what I was most interested to see was the rear plate. No casting parts of it so as to indicate it was designed as per a carbon arc light. Next telling in age is if has dual walls of 22ga steel in the housing when you take it apart. Big difference between dual wall fixture, and those with just baffles for light.

I think given the rear damage and mounting burnt out part does indicate a reflector.

Interesting if part of your noting that the focus pull rod is off center, and there is no rails for the carriage to ride on. Or is there, just not normal? More exploring.

In dating a fixture, I often turn to websites or my collection of books in their publishing date. A web search can tell which library if any houses the Capitol Stage Lighting collection of designs and catalogues. Don't know if any exist, but possible such records of your amazing fixture exist. It would also tell you if it had a reflector or not. I would given so far photo's date it between 1911 and 1916.

 

[Gage]

The plot thickens! It seems Ohio state has a large collection of capitol documentation. I've contacted them for assistance but none of it is digitized so I'm not expecting miracles. So far I've found a very similar-looking light in catalogs from as late as 1954 listed as a capitol No. 16. Pictures below of said catalog. Wattage seems to be in line with what I have, as well as lens diameter, but those are not very solid things to draw any conclusions on.

there is no rails for the carriage to ride on. Or is there, just not normal

No real rails, the socket itself is on a sort of sled held captive by two "channels" formed by the bent sheet metal housing.

Next telling in age is if has dual walls of 22ga steel in the housing when you take it apart. Big difference between dual wall fixture, and those with just baffles for light.

All openings are covered by baffles, as best I can tell this isn't a dual-wall design.

 

[ship]

Hmm, I have one or two Capitol catalogues. Was there a model number plate on the fixture? Sorry, didn't think of that... out of practice in research and not currently working on any fixtures. This even if a 1926 Olivelitte sitting on the floor waiting, and a 1880's Magic Lantern in a box waiting.

I understand the glide rail method. Thanks for that info. Ohio State's collection is very important for TBA some day put on line. Does it describe a reflector in the catalogue?

 

[Gage]

No model number on the fixture to be found. The catalog makes mention of a replacement sled/socket assembly that can be ordered with or without the reflector, so an option as you had suspected. The sled/socket assembly is slightly different from what I have with the one pictured in the catalog appearing more refined with a visible reflector mount. In all other aspects, the fixture seems identical to what's pictured in the catalog, even measuring in at the same 19-inch length listed, with a 6-inch lens. The stated paint finish in the catalog is black wrinkle, which I can get in a high-temperature variant.

I got a promising response from from Ohio state, and will hold off on making any restoration decisions until things get narrowed down a bit more.

If you do decide to skim through your catalogs, the fixture seems to match the Capitol "NO. 19" listed in the photos on my last post. so far I've found it listed in a 1947, and a 1954 catalog. No telling how long production ran for yet, not enough data and no publically available digital catalogs apart from the few things I found. Unfortunately, neither catalog is owned by me, only images pulled from a web search. Working on acquiring a 1947 catalog though, one is listed for sale but at an unusually steep price for old lighting memorabilia. Waiting to see if the seller might come to their senses. If it ends up in my possession, I will digitize it ASAP.

I'm looking forward to your future projects. I've always kept a lookout for interesting older fixtures, but am not in an area old enough to come across them "in the wild" on a semi-regular basis.

 

[ship]

My catalogues should already be on the CB Wikike PDF's. But I'll try to hit the attic this weekend for the actual catalogue/s. Also, if time see if I have any appropriate reflectors and or reflector assemblies. That's much more doubtful but hope.

Your paint color might be texture black - non high temp. Wrinkle black otherwise very hard to re-produce. Might be the case you spray the area with Rust inhibitor and leave the damaged paint area alone. Such paint will take heat sufficiently for a while and stop the rust from exposed metal.

What you thinking about the seemingly hand painted silvered paint inside? I would leave it, seen it before and might be factory bad idea.

Such projects are added fun in the research, beyond cleaning and re-tapping each screw etc. Lots of photo's if you take it apart for full restore. Helps to re-assemble. Notes in the past or could provide on wiring/socket. Grounding will be needed if you wire it. Ground on the sled is preferred. There is some fiberglass sleeving that seems like asbestos I have used in the past to sleeve over normal high temp wiring that could be done to make safe but modern if interested.

 

[Gage]

Found link on wiki for the 1937 catalog, which the capitol "NO. 19" is in. Exactly the same specs as the 1950s catalog less the mention of "black wrinkle" finish. Clearer catalog pictures are included. ETA from Ohio state is about 2 weeks, I'll bet good money that this thing is listed in catalogs considerably older than what's been discovered so far. Also have the 1947 catalog on its way... will digitize when it arrives. Also have included a photo of what looks to be original paint finish.

Im going to get a sample of what the manufacturer claims is a very close match to "wrinkle" paint of the time, apparetly stable up to about 400deg. Regardless of what I end up choosing it will be a matte black, the sloppy brush job just doesn't sit right with me. If original, nobody on the shop floor had a conversation about masking before handing children oversized brushes. I have a silver on hand that very closely matches what remains on the interior of the fixture, and will probably end up using it. Even if not entirely original it doesn't seem out of place for the time. A little extra "bling" won't hurt for display purposes either. Unfortunately can't use what's already there as the hasty black brush job found its way inside as well. The red handle and yoke knob will stay red. Seeing a few arc-based units with very similar housings, I bet capitol milked this design for all it was worth. Seeing pictures with unpainted cast parts, but painted sheet metal parts, fully painted fixtures, wrinkle, flat black... I have a feeling this design was kicked around long enough and was toyed with enough that no choice is an entirely wrong choice. Worst case I tear it all down and start over again. I'm not yet at the age where my time is valuable enough to worry about perfect first trys and "do-overs" : )

I have the mentioned fiberglass sleeving and high temp wire on hand already, usually try and keep a small inventory of it for normal repairs. Everything will be wired to modern standards and I will be losing that bodged J-box on the back.

Next week I'll do some paint samples on scrap steel and get everything in order. Currently finishing up a non-lighting related restoration that's crowding up my workbench. Thanks for all your help so far, this is more progress than I had initially expected to make... always a good thing.