A School Full of Problems - MIXER HELP!!

[soundtech193746]

So a school district in the area wanted to create a Jr. High Drama Department. Before, both Jr. High and Sr. High were one big department. Anyways, now that it has been split apart, we have a few issues. At the Sr. High we just completely installed a brand new sound system. However, at the middle school is where our dilemma is. The system installed there is very new, however it does not have a Mixer, multiple wireless mics. The problem we are having is being able to run a show for drama, considering the problem of only having 2 wireless transmitters (Sennheiser G3 100 i believe). Since we would need multiple mics, we're not sure what to do. I have a couple ideas so if someone could share theirs or validate one of mine, that would be terrific!!

Some things to know:
We already have a DSP by Soundweb: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...1jJCZxjLHwo6YIV1erRG9OyyQRdgqkKxoCEPkQAvD_BwE

We have a touch panel by Crestron Controls that controls the wireless mics and XLR jacks on the stage

I will provide pictures on Monday as I will not be back there until then.

We are on a "school" budget. LOL

With that being said, here's the system I was thinking of:
Behringer x32 Compact or "Producer" ($979.99-$1,699)
Behringer s32 Stage Box ($1000)

I'm not sure help plz!!

 

[AudJ]

Are you a vendor, or outside help?

Is there a budget, or are you creating a proposal for funding?

I like the x32 stuff for a tight budget, but if you only have 2 mics? I’m assuming you have to plan for the eventual aquisition of a more appropriate number of input devices?

At our middle school, we use basically the same sound system components as our high school (different brands). The MS room is actually larger and there are more students involved in the production, so technically the system there was more expensive. But we use the same number of wireless mics.

I would develop an ultimate goal, and find a way to get there either now or eventually based on budget.

 

[FMEng]

In a fixed installation, go with a full X32, if you can. I have a compact and its great, but it is a bit harder to use with a large number of mics. I have regularly used it with 32 mics, but it takes more planning during setup and thinking ahead as you mix. I made the choice for the compact based on what I can lift and haul in my car.

Be sure to budget for rugged, shielded, Cat 5 cable with Ethercons for the S32. Quality cable is a necessity for the X32.

 

[soundtech193746]

Are you a vendor, or outside help?

Is there a budget, or are you creating a proposal for funding?

I like the x32 stuff for a tight budget, but if you only have 2 mics? I’m assuming you have to plan for the eventual aquisition of a more appropriate number of input devices?

At our middle school, we use basically the same sound system components as our high school (different brands). The MS room is actually larger and there are more students involved in the production, so technically the system there was more expensive. But we use the same number of wireless mics.

I would develop an ultimate goal, and find a way to get there either now or eventually based on budget.

To clear up some mis information:

The 2 wireless recievers are installed in the rack at the school already. It could not be controlled by a mixer.

I only have roughly 3 grand to work with, so a X32 Compact and Dsnake along with Shure BLX wireless should be fine for us?
The current mic transmitters are Sennheiser g100 i believe. However, we wouldnt be able to integrate it

-thanks!!

 

[josh88]

You absolutely could hook in the wireless that is already there but it was likely installed in a way/wired in a rack/set up as a system with no intention of them being disconnected. You could certainly do it but some people may not appreciate you "breaking into" the closed system.

My high school space had a similar set up with a rack/mics and amps to power everything. Our system was designed with a way to put a mixer in the system but the wireless was controlled through separate rack controls primarily for meetings/assemblies and public address. I knew how it was all installed and knew what I was doing so I added them as needed to the mixer inputs, but then was sure to put them back into regular use for anybody else needing the space during a school day.

 

[Silicon_Knight]

If your total budget is $3k, you are going to run into challenges with wireless mics. How many do you need? Most shows I've done are at least 10, and 20 is nicer - even used lower-end 600MHz (that are only good for few years) are going to run $200+ per channel (trans/rcvr set). However, with that qty of rcvrs, you will likely want antenna distribution, which could be another $500-1k. That would consume most of your budget.

That being said, is there a reason that you're using a digital snake? Are you running monitor/PAs through it? Could you use an analog snake (surely cheaper than the digital snake a $250 cable that you'll need)?

 

[David Ashton]

If you are doing drama then spend the money teaching the kids how to project their voices, radio miking is a job which is only worth doing if you have a lot of good gear and a hell of a lot of expertize if you don't have both it is awful.

 

[TimMc]

If your total budget is $3k, you are going to run into challenges with wireless mics. How many do you need? Most shows I've done are at least 10, and 20 is nicer - even used lower-end 600MHz (that are only good for few years) are going to run $200+ per channel (trans/rcvr set). However, with that qty of rcvrs, you will likely want antenna distribution, which could be another $500-1k. That would consume most of your budget.

That being said, is there a reason that you're using a digital snake? Are you running monitor/PAs through it? Could you use an analog snake (surely cheaper than the digital snake a $250 cable that you'll need)?

Depending on ones geographic location 600mHz might already be "gone" for our use. T-Mobile has accelerated their roll out of service in their newly-acquired 600mHz bands and those who thought they had until 2020 are in for a profound and unpleasant surprise. In my market t-Mobile lit up 600mHz service on Nov 1, 2017 despite there being no compatible devices sold to the public until December...

The transitions are happening as soon as TV stations vacate their old frequency assignments; something on the order of 24 hours working under FCC construction & testing permits and then they go live as a fully operational service.

For the original poster: As for mixing & budget - while $3000 buys a whole lot more than it did just a few years ago it's barely enough to purchase a suitable mixer with enough inputs to do a musical. Josh88 is spot on about the existing installation and the wireless being "applianced" as in, it's as easy to use as a toaster... and that the installation is physically built to discourage alterations that change the "appliance" nature of the install.

 

[Silicon_Knight]

If you are doing drama then spend the money teaching the kids how to project their voices, radio miking is a job which is only worth doing if you have a lot of good gear and a hell of a lot of expertize if you don't have both it is awful.

Re-readings the original post, this may only be a drama, not a musical. If it's just a drama, then vocal projection is ABSOLUTELY the right answer. If you still need sound effects, pre-show music, etc. that could potentially leverage the installed system (maybe with a small mixer). If it's a very large venue (>300 seats), then you might need some sort of sound reinforcement.

If it's a musical and the music is recorded, then vocal projection CAN work, but you'll need to be very creative with the monitors (so that the actors can still hear the music) - their sound level will be what the actors will have to sing over.

If it's a musical with live music, I've never seen it done without mics (unless you have a very small venue and operatic trained singers).

Also, are you planning on trying to tap into the Crestron system for PAs, or put up separate (e.g. speakers on a stick)?

Of course, all of this is just MHO and you didn't pay anything for it, so give it the appropriate weighting!

Depending on ones geographic location 600mHz might already be "gone" for our use. T-Mobile has accelerated their roll out of service in their newly-acquired 600mHz bands and those who thought they had until 2020 are in for a profound and unpleasant surprise. In my market t-Mobile lit up 600mHz service on Nov 1, 2017 despite there being no compatible devices sold to the public until December...

Yeah, I had heard that 600MHz was already becoming problematic in some areas...

 

[Scibby]

You should be able to get whoever installed your Crestron to program it for you the way you want it. I have an Extron controller installed to run wireless mics, stage jacks, projectors etc for simple assembly type functions. We can then change the system over to "performance mode" which allows us to plug in a mixing desk and extra mics etc.

If the system is quite new but doesn't suit your needs, get whoever installed it back on site to quote on providing a more useful setup.

 

[jdenora]

I suggest finding a vendor with a heart and a decent price and renting everything. If your budget is like most schools, it gets replenished every year. If you can get what you need by renting the whole thing, do it. If you buy it, you have to maintain it, and every organization that uses the space will want to use your rig. I worked at a school with a pretty good setup, but when I needed more (which was most of the time), I rented as much as possible.

 

[Silicon_Knight]

I suggest finding a vendor with a heart and a decent price and renting everything. If your budget is like most schools, it gets replenished every year. If you can get what you need by renting the whole thing, do it. If you buy it, you have to maintain it, and every organization that uses the space will want to use your rig. I worked at a school with a pretty good setup, but when I needed more (which was most of the time), I rented as much as possible.

This is good advice - especially if you're only going to use the equipment once a year or so, or if your show run in only a few days.

Unfortunately, every time I've tried to rent equipment for anything more than a few days, it's almost the same cost as purchasing! Maybe I'm not looking in the right places...

 

[josh88]

You definitely have to find the right vendor which is easier said than done sometimes. We give discounts for non profits and educational stuff I'm sure we're not the only ones.

 

[soundtech193746]

suit

You should be able to get whoever installed your Crestron to program it for you the way you want it. I have an Extron controller installed to run wireless mics, stage jacks, projectors etc for simple assembly type functions. We can then change the system over to "performance mode" which allows us to plug in a mixing desk and extra mics etc.

If the system is quite new but doesn't suit your needs, get whoever installed it back on site to quote on providing a more useful setup.

I really wish that I could have someone come out and program the Crestron controller. Unfortunatley, the board at the school and technology department BOTH can not find any information on who installed the system. I can not find a trace of who installed it.

I tried checking to see if there was a business card in the rack, there wasn't. I tried navigating the touch panel, and could not find anything lol.

 

[soundtech193746]

Re-readings the original post, this may only be a drama, not a musical. If it's just a drama, then vocal projection is ABSOLUTELY the right answer. If you still need sound effects, pre-show music, etc. that could potentially leverage the installed system (maybe with a small mixer). If it's a very large venue (>300 seats), then you might need some sort of sound reinforcement.

If it's a musical and the music is recorded, then vocal projection CAN work, but you'll need to be very creative with the monitors (so that the actors can still hear the music) - their sound level will be what the actors will have to sing over.

If it's a musical with live music, I've never seen it done without mics (unless you have a very small venue and operatic trained singers).

Also, are you planning on trying to tap into the Crestron system for PAs, or put up separate (e.g. speakers on a stick)?

Of course, all of this is just MHO and you didn't pay anything for it, so give it the appropriate weighting!



Yeah, I had heard that 600MHz was already becoming problematic in some areas...

It is a musical. Our actors are surprisingly good for the age. (Good projection and singing capabilities)

The musical will most likely been done with canned music.

We tapped in to the Crestron system. We run XLR out into the input jacks on the stage. We'd like to get a Shure BLX system

We will most likey use monitors

 

[josh88]

I really wish that I could have someone come out and program the Crestron controller. Unfortunatley, the board at the school and technology department BOTH can not find any information on who installed the system. I can not find a trace of who installed it.
I tried checking to see if there was a business card in the rack, there wasn't. I tried navigating the touch panel, and could not find anything lol.

It could be a little time consuming but look for the AV installers in your immediate area and just start calling, whoever did it should still have records and would know if they worked for you. On the schools end.... the records are there somewhere, especially if its "very new" as you describe. Nobody loses those records in 5 years. Some quick googling says it looks like the school was last renovated 2012-2013. Reynolds-Companies.com (now reynolds solutions) appears to have overseen that renovation. You could likely call them up and find out who did the auditorium work.

 

[Brenden Friedel]

I really wish that I could have someone come out and program the Crestron controller. Unfortunatley, the board at the school and technology department BOTH can not find any information on who installed the system. I can not find a trace of who installed it.

I tried checking to see if there was a business card in the rack, there wasn't. I tried navigating the touch panel, and could not find anything lol.

You should be able to go to the schools book keeper or the district bookkeeper to see who they paid for the system. Schools should keep a file of it

 

[AudJ]

I don’t know down there, but in NY, school districts have to keep an inventory by law. Always attached to appropriate vendors through the P.O. process.

At the very least, the district likely has a list of every vendor they have done business with, at least 5-10 years worth has been standard in my experience. They keep all info on file for bidding, warranty, and other paperwork-saving reasons.

Just need to find the right individual to ask.

 

[KBToys82]

It is a musical. Our actors are surprisingly good for the age. (Good projection and singing capabilities)

The musical will most likely been done with canned music.

We tapped in to the Crestron system. We run XLR out into the input jacks on the stage. We'd like to get a Shure BLX system

We will most likey use monitors

I actually would recommend the Audio Technica 3000 system. About the same price, and I've had great experience with them every time I've rented it.

 

[AudJ]

There are other brands of wireless that are good, but since the OP already has a couple Sennheisers, it would seem to make sense to stick with them in this case. Fewer proprietary do-dads to keep track of later.