After a year and a half - scrims are in sight

[JLNorthGA]

So - a not so anonymous donor has offered to purchase our theatre a scrim.

I have a black drop that I can put on any batten (I really have to invest in a backpack vacuum though).

Rose Brand has scrim in NFR that is 35' W (Trevira in white and black). They have FR scrim up to 39' W.

Our proscenium opening is 30' W x 16' H. Our battens are ~40' W. The maximum height that we can fly out of the way is 17-18'.

I was thinking about a 39' W or 35' W x 17' H scrim. I'm leaning towards a white scrim, but I can be talked into black if I have enough supporting data to take to the board.

Preferences to width, height and color?

 

[Les]

I would go with a black scrim since you can get it totally dark. A white scrim will always "be there", even if you don't light it.

 

[alyx92]

I second what Les said. I've seen both in use and usually the white looks awful when not lit.

 

[MNicolai]

Thirded. I haven't seen a white scrim in use, but I know from experience a black soft good on stage can always be used as a background. A white soft good on stage is always begging to be lit even if the scene doesn't want it lit. It's like having a white cyc on stage. I always feel obligated to light it, and then I spend 15-20 minutes with the director showing them that for whatever they didn't want to light it for, it's usually just as awkward to stage something in front of an unlit cyc as it is to light it for a scene that shouldn't have a giant white background behind it -- either way you're not getting the effect you want.

That said, the two colors serve opposite purposes. In my opinion, a white surfaces helps the scene in front of it seem larger but a black surface makes everything in front of it seem small. It depends on what you're trying to achieve. White scrims and black scrims both have their places in our tool kits.

I think if this a purchase for the theater though I'd recommend a black scrim. You can find someone to rent white from if you need it once in awhile. I suspect if I had both black and white in stock, the black would see far more use than the white. I think this would be true to many theaters as all of the theaters I've worked at have only had enough cyc lights for their cyc. To additionally hang a white scrim on stage and then try to light it would be a hard task. They'd have to give up a lot of real estate on the closest electric to hang the cyc lights on. Then, inevitably, the distance from the electric to the pipe the scrim is hung on would never be ideal for the angle of the cyc lights so they'd always look weird and not provide an even wash across it. They'd also either have to give up their cyc lights from the cyc to light the scrim or use strip lights (which take up an enormous amount of space on a pipe) or to use fresnels or PAR's (which take a not-inconsequential number of fixtures to light evenly in more than one color).

 

[tprewitt]

What color you specifically will get the best use out of is a tough one but sounds like folks above are consistent with what I see. We sew many more black than white. White are very often supplied on the same order as a black and when people are looking to cut costs, frequently the white scrim is the first thing to go.

Keep in mind when you purchase scrim the width of the fabric will usually be used as the height of the finished goods. If you're looking for a 35' - 39' wide by 17' high finished piece you would use 20' wide scrim. Purchase ever how many yards needed for the desired width. Sometimes this works out cheaper, sometimes not so much. I'm not a lighting designer by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm told the fabric does not work as well sideways. A post in the lighting area will likely yield better, more specific, information.

Sounds like you are looking at purchasing raw fabric. You can save some cost sewing it in house if you have a reasonably skilled seamstress. (If they can make costumes, they are plenty skilled.) Scrims can be tedious, but are not difficult to sew. A really small home machine may have a tough time running a sturdy enough thread, but anything reasonably heavy duty will do it fine. Make sure you allow enough fabric for all your hems and a 1/2 yard or so to square up the ends. Sides look better and don't hourglass as much if you do a 3" hem and double turn them. You'll also need to double turn or wrap the webbing too. (This means 20' goods will yield about an 18'6" H sewn piece. Add about a yard for side hems and waste.)

Good luck.

 

[kicknargel]

Just checking--there is a common semantic mistake between "scrim" and "cyc." Are you looking for a light-able surface to go upstage (cyc), or the ability to do bleed-through effects (scrim)? If you don't have a cyc, I'd get that next, before a scrim. Or, ideally, a white cyc all the way upstage, then cyc lights, then a black scrim. That way, when the cyc is lit is shows through, but when unlit it fades to black.

 

[JLNorthGA]

Bleed-through, but light-able. I like your suggestion about a white cyc upstage - but that's probably beyond our current budget.

 

[MNicolai]

What color you specifically will get the best use out of is a tough one but sounds like folks above are consistent with what I see. We sew many more black than white. White are very often supplied on the same order as a black and when people are looking to cut costs, frequently the white scrim is the first thing to go.

Keep in mind when you purchase scrim the width of the fabric will usually be used as the height of the finished goods. If you're looking for a 35' - 39' wide by 17' high finished piece you would use 20' wide scrim. Purchase ever how many yards needed for the desired width. Sometimes this works out cheaper, sometimes not so much. I'm not a lighting designer by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm told the fabric does not work as well sideways. A post in the lighting area will likely yield better, more specific, information.

Sounds like you are looking at purchasing raw fabric. You can save some cost sewing it in house if you have a reasonably skilled seamstress. (If they can make costumes, they are plenty skilled.) Scrims can be tedious, but are not difficult to sew. A really small home machine may have a tough time running a sturdy enough thread, but anything reasonably heavy duty will do it fine. Make sure you allow enough fabric for all your hems and a 1/2 yard or so to square up the ends. Sides look better and don't hourglass as much if you do a 3" hem and double turn them. You'll also need to double turn or wrap the webbing too. (This means 20' goods will yield about an 18'6" H sewn piece. Add about a yard for side hems and waste.)

Good luck.

This reminds me of another good point to keep in mind when purchasing a scrim or fabric for it. Because of the manner in which the material stretches, it doesn't hang flatly like a cyc would. A cyc hung with bottom pipe will look fairly rectangular when view from the audience. A scrim will tend to be wider at the top and at the bottom with more of an hourglass figure after you insert the bottom pipe to stretch the fabric.

If you purchased a 42' wide scrim to fill a 40' wide leg opening, you'd find that the legs would sufficiently mask the width of the scrim on either side at the top and bottom of the scrim. However, about half-way up the scrim may be more like more like 37' wide due to the skew and may not fully fill the leg opening. I just made these numbers up to illustrate my point but the amount of width you lose to the hourglass stretch is not negligible.

Another side effect to consider is that because of this hourglass effect, a scrim after it is hemmed may be 25' tall. Apply bottom pipe and it may be closer to the 30' tall when it stretches. In some places this is not a problem. In other theaters, it translates into the scrim being too tall for the fly loft's high-trim position and when flown out completely, the scrim acts like another border or protrudes down into the acting space.

If you solicit a quote from someone like Rose Brand, I'd specifically ask them how much stretch to anticipate for a scrim of your chosen width and height. They've got a bit of experience in this and I'm sure can help you choose the optimal size of material for scrim.

 

[derekleffew]

... I like your suggestion about a white cyc upstage - but that's probably beyond our current budget.

I don't think I've ever seen a cyc ("skydrop" for the purists) cost more than a scrim (same size, color irrelevant).

I'd buy a white or natural cyc (preferably seamless muslin) and black scrim (sharkstooth).

EDIT: To counteract the hourglassing, some recommend ordering the scrim with gromments and webbing on the sides as well, and run a steel cable from batten to bottom pipe, then tie the sides to the side cables.
.

 

[JLNorthGA]

I don't think I've ever seen a cyc ("skydrop" for the purists) cost more than a scrim (same size, color irrelevant).

I'd buy a white or natural cyc (preferably seamless muslin) and black scrim (sharkstooth).

EDIT: To counteract the hourglassing, some recommend ordering the scrim with gromments and webbing on the sides as well, and run a steel cable from batten to bottom pipe, then tie the sides to the side cables.
.

I've gotten quotes for the scrim w/ grommets, webbing, and reinforced side seams for about $1100. The seamless muslin drop runs about $50/yd for a 17' W piece and about $80/yd for a 20' W piece. Figure on 13 yds. So on the order of $1000+ for a shorter muslin cyc and $1400 for a longer muslin cyc.