Altman 1KL Series Question

[jcslighting]

I am currently looking over an older high school auditorium and trying to help the new director to make some informed decisions about equipment. The school was built in the early 90's and we just replaced their old EDI 2 scene preset console with a new ETC Element but they have serious fixture issues. The only ellipsoidals they have are the old Altman 1KL series split between 12 deg and 20 deg fixtures. My question is this - where can I find replacement reflectors for these dinosaurs and/or will a 360q reflector fit in a 1KL?

I had really poor output on most FOH fixtures so I opened one up and found the reflector was basically melted in the center and the rest was greyed out -not a reflector anymore!. Easy fix would be to replace the reflector IF I can find some. Best fix would be to replace not just the reflectors but all the junk fixtures but I don't think they will have the budget to do that much as I am working a sound system replacement/upgrade quote as well. For some reason folks would rather hear than see things in the theatre.

Thanks in advance for any ideas or sources!

 

[derekleffew]

Altman Part# Desc: 2008 MSRP:
19-0013 #1KL-107 Alzak Reflector $60.00
19-0061 #360Q Main Reflector w/Holes $55.00

Different part# and price, so doubt they are the same. Also doubt new 19-0013 are available from Altman any longer. (One vendor's price list I found says "Call for Pricing", a possible indication that the item is rare or unobtainable.)

My 2¢? I wouldn't spend a dime on the 1KLs. I'd rather have thirty year-old 360Qs, or even radials from any manufacturer. Limp along with them the way they are; save your pennies for better new or used instruments.

If you insist, buy one Super Reflector http://www.productionadvantageonline.com/Products/97-0125.aspx kit and see how much inventiveness it would take to make it work in a 1KL.

Exploded diagram in case you need it:

 

[Footer]

http://mail.altmanltg.com/publicsyn...iew&ID={DF9E0DB5-5CC7-4E05-8AA5-83DA6E6EAF70}

Looks like they still make it. Give them a call and ask. They are a rather nice bunch of people.

With that though.... if the reflector costs more then about 50 bucks each don't bother. The output on these fixtures was low to begin with. For 50 bucks a piece you can buy used fixtures of some sort.

 

[Les]

I agree with all of the above.

From what I have noticed about the 1KL series is that they use peened aluminum reflectors, which are completely unlike the double-flatted 360Q reflector. Altman uses a lot of the same parts among several fixtures when possible, so I imagine that they would have originally come with 360Q reflectors if they could have. I feel like the 360Q reflector would be too large. You could check with other manufacturers such as Times Square.

 

[ship]

I agree with all of the above.

From what I have noticed about the 1KL series is that they use peened aluminum reflectors, which are completely unlike the double-flatted 360Q reflector. Altman uses a lot of the same parts among several fixtures when possible, so I imagine that they would have originally come with 360Q reflectors if they could have. I feel like the 360Q reflector would be too large. You could check with other manufacturers such as Times Square.

Times Square I believe went out of business. But you are correct I think on the use of the same base style of reflector in that more than likely with a few holes and cuts to it to modify. Think you can make a 360Q reflector work. Believe I made this work for one of the museum fixtures missing a reflector properly, but it's been a few years since I worked on that generation of fixture last. Peening or flattening of a elipsoidal reflector might have changed but the overall shape opften if changed slightlight in a brand often is workable with bench focus.

Science project, can you intalll a S-4 reflector into 1KAL assembly? Possible assuming you can do the bench focus and there is a lot of material in the lamp cap to modify with retaining the new reflector. The rest is all about measurements by way of accuracy that elipsoidal shape how accurate you can get it in working with a fairly bad designed fixture. Be glad at least you didn't wind up with the same era of Colortran at least. Yes, I think a 360Q reflector and gate reflector will work if the proper ones are not available.

 

[Les]

Good point, Ship. Here's one way to look at it -- it's not going to get much worse than it was to begin with! Of course, I would try to find a boneyard of 360Q's to salvage from. And if you do find such a boneyard, consider fixing them up instead .

 

[ship]

Good point, Ship. Here's one way to look at it -- it's not going to get much worse than it was to begin with! Of course, I would try to find a boneyard of 360Q's to salvage from. And if you do find such a boneyard, consider fixing them up instead .

Working with some Brit's at the moment doning a tour and finding the perfect monment to get the LD to send me even a trashed Pat 23 as more easily found on his side of the pond. (Constantly working on getting my Pat23, it's a goal with other stuff in the works but more long term.)

Finishing up the last two Colortran 10 and 5 degree Lekos made out of spare parts like 20 years old. Just need one more yoke clutch cam clip to make and done that I can make in the morning. Really crappy fixtures but used for where I work years upon years just fine at a new location. Given a pallet of them once I worked on them, off to a store front theater this past year that in their other second theater space has that throw distance that has that throw and they are in love with the free cost and output. Probably one of the few places that can use long throw fixtures and not have money for better. Happy for what they get, they are as per any of us 20 to 25 years ago in great for what we could get.

For myself... believe I have much of all 360/360Q in collection by way of three or four generation by way of color beyond lamp housing. More 360Q for me would yes be fixing up, but go to others perhaps but most likely not get me more lights I don't have. More so just give to others in fixing up. Where I work has a tremendous amount of 360Q medium and medium long lens trains that I'm just going to give away as per no use. Above theater has need and is 501c3 in tax letter plus need.

Workning on another local theater that has a brand of Leko I don't have, but will probably have to give away S-4 Leko's to get them as they are already spoiled by them. Long term project as with a few others.

 

[jonliles]

Good point, Ship. Here's one way to look at it -- it's not going to get much worse than it was to begin with! Of course, I would try to find a boneyard of 360Q's to salvage from. And if you do find such a boneyard, consider fixing them up instead .

I have 5 or 6 NEW 360Q reflectors hanging around. If interested, PM me.

 

[derekleffew]

Times Square I believe went out of business. ...

Not so.
http://www.timessquarelighting.com/
.

 

[ship]

Not so.
http://www.timessquarelighting.com/
.

Hmm, Perhaps I was thinking L&E.

I have stacks of reflectors and gate reflectors of all sorts of generation and brand at the moment, but if you want to ensure they go to a good home eventuallly say yes and I'll PM back with address and UPS or Fed Ex Account number to ship with. Thinking though that such things are useful to keep around even if not in use for "specials" in the future - prop lights or custom lights that you have starting materials to go with. Some form of ray light or like that, if six reflectors and or misc. other parts I would keep them around and I do with entire walls of parts to make stuff out of parts. And do so as part of my living.

Back to the topic, Derek our most expert web manager (Interesting and very modern new website) and searcher I think might be able to pull up a past post on the 1KAL line of fixtures and a fight I once had with Altman on the discontuned parts. A day later in more remembering working on a pallet of 1KAL6-30's and some Zooms, I do remember something about Altman sayiing that the normal 360Q reflector would work fine. This was a few years ago and about just after them discontinuing the parts. Yes slight modifiation to the reflector but that's normal. Optically fine as I remember.

That said, also on the Colortran - last two from the bone yard project, they also have Altman Reflectors in them as with gate reflectors of the same. Think I remember gate reflectors in them, this short of checking. (Need to climb a ladder at work to verify and normally if at work I'm really busy all day.) Yep work just fine. Or as the ME. of the Hoist Dpt. might say to a lot of my early work... "You polished up that turd really well", as per a complement on something that is a lost cause.

But I do remember a fight with Altman over 1KAL discontued parts, and the 360Q reflector fine. Wrong at times but not often when it comes to old fixture parts. Believe we now have a better shipping location for those extra reflectors. Contact each other off line.

 

[jcslighting]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I have an old 360q body minus the lens tube lying around at another theatre perhaps I will swap out the reflector and see what happens before suggesting they purchase a couple dozen more. I was really pushing for the S4 upgrade idea just to get rid of all those old fixtures. I think the size/weight/output of a 1kl series was about the worst possible result at the time.