Conventional Fixtures Altman 3.5 Q's

[jspencer16]

Hello Forum land!

I work at a music conservatory and we are trying to update our lighting system but that comes with a lot of complications. We have an organ loft that is no longer used for said instrument and now houses lights for the apron of the stage, mostly to light music stands. There are currently 15 Altman 3.5 Q 10's lamped at 500 watts up there and we are looking to replace them with something more energy efficient. The loft is at about 40 feet above the stage and the lights shoot through 4"x4" holes of vintage wood. The lights currently have small top hats on them and the new lights would have to do the same to keep the heat of the wood. Has anyone had or tried the new Altman CDM units? How is their output compared to the conventional fixture? Does anyone know of LED units with high enough output that don't cost 5 billion dollars? Thanks for any help I can get.

 

[SteveB]

Hello Forum land!

I work at a music conservatory and we are trying to update our lighting system but that comes with a lot of complications. We have an organ loft that is no longer used for said instrument and now houses lights for the apron of the stage, mostly to light music stands. There are currently 15 Altman 3.5 Q 10's lamped at 500 watts up there and we are looking to replace them with something more energy efficient. The loft is at about 40 feet above the stage and the lights shoot through 4"x4" holes of vintage wood. The lights currently have small top hats on them and the new lights would have to do the same to keep the heat of the wood. Has anyone had or tried the new Altman CDM units? How is their output compared to the conventional fixture? Does anyone know of LED units with high enough output that don't cost 5 billion dollars? Thanks for any help I can get.

The first big question is are the current fixtures powered off of dimmers ? or direct AC power. If you choose to go the Altman CDM 3.5" ellipsoidal route or LED, you will need non-dimmed power.

A brief look at the CDM/CMH lamps shows a lumen output of around 11,000 lumens, which is slightly higher then the 10,000 for the EHD quartz halogen lamp that is typical for the Altman 3.5" unit. A quick look at an available LED ellipsoidal that would fit, shows an L&E unit that puts out 1200 lumens, which would be insufficient for your needs.

Life for a CMH is around 6,000 hrs. vs. 2000 for an EHD. With an EHD selling for about $15 per lamp and a CMH at $65, the EHD is more cost effective, except for more frequent labor required to change the lamp, as well as electricity saved on the CMH. If it's only a few fixtures, I'm not seeing the investment paying for itself, unless you HAVE to replace the existing fixtures. Factor in as well the installation costs and the equipment needed to convert the existing circuits to non-dimmed. If the circuits are dimmed and ETC Sensor dimmers, and work in pairs, then it's a simple swap to a Sensor relay module, with 2 - 2.4kw relays per module @ around $400 per module/circuit pair.

Note that the Altman pdf cut sheet for the CDM ellipsoidal has no useful info. about the specific lamp used, so I'm estimating somewhat based on info. on the Bulbtronics website.

 

[calkew5]

Just throwing this out there but you might want to try a more modern, efficient lamp like the GLA (long life) or GLC (more brightness) - both are 575w but have a much higher output than the EHD and fit in the same socket you already have - for a quick way to upgrade the efficiency of those instruments.

 

[Les]

Just throwing this out there but you might want to try a more modern, efficient lamp like the GLA (long life) or GLC (more brightness) - both are 575w but have a much higher output than the EHD and fit in the same socket you already have - for a quick way to upgrade the efficiency of those instruments.

Nitpicky here, but I think what the OP meant by "energy efficient" was 'the same amount of light using less power'. While the above lamps provide greater luminous efficiency (lumens per watt), they consume a little more power as well. You are right though that if the OP is needing more light on stage without upgrading fixtures or dimmers, those lamps are good choices [the 3.5Q is only rated for the 500w EHD, but I highly doubt the extra 75w would cause a meltdown. Insurance issues if there's a problem, maybe ]. Personally, if I had 3.5Q's, I'd prefer them to be lamped with GLA/C's for all the reasons you mentioned.

One [-]upgrade[/-] downgrade? that comes to mind is replacing the GY9.5 socket with a mini-can socket. Then you can use lamps from 250-500w. This is actually listed as an option for the 3.5Q series. Obviously, if you need to maintain your current light levels, this option probably isn't for you.

 

[jspencer16]

They do need to have the same output and be more energy efficient. It could even be something different that is used during rehearsals and the 3.5Qs could be used for performances. Cost is only sort of a factor because the higher ups in the school want the main theatre to suck up less energy, but we have to have the lights on for 6-8 hours a day during the school year. Does anyone know of architectural lighting fixtures that might be able to do the job? Thanks

 

[PeteEngel]

Hello Forum land!

I work at a music conservatory and we are trying to update our lighting system but that comes with a lot of complications. We have an organ loft that is no longer used for said instrument and now houses lights for the apron of the stage, mostly to light music stands. There are currently 15 Altman 3.5 Q 10's lamped at 500 watts up there and we are looking to replace them with something more energy efficient. The loft is at about 40 feet above the stage and the lights shoot through 4"x4" holes of vintage wood. The lights currently have small top hats on them and the new lights would have to do the same to keep the heat of the wood. Has anyone had or tried the new Altman CDM units? How is their output compared to the conventional fixture? Does anyone know of LED units with high enough output that don't cost 5 billion dollars? Thanks for any help I can get.

Checking out the Altman website, it says the Altman 3.5Q 10 (23 degree) gives a 16' pool of light at 40' with 11 Footcandles of output. (if i'm reading their product sheet correctly) The Robert Juliat AledIN 631 LED Profile will give you that output with either color temp option with the fixture set at 23 degrees, at 40'. The fixture is a bit bigger than the 3.5Q, but if I'm understanding correctly the nose of the light isn't passing through the 4x4 hole. The pool of light 4" past the nose of the AledIN is 5 1/2" in diameter, but it is very cool. You are able to use plastic gobos or put your fingers in the gate of the AledIN and not be burned. I'm sure you could have a reducing top hat made if need be. The AledIN uses a standard 7 1/2" gel frame size. The AledIN uses an 85w White LED of either 3500k or 5800k color temp, with a total draw of 105w. Please feel free to contact your local Robert Juliat dealer for info on pricing and availability. Pete Robert Juliat USA

 

[jglodeklights]

Checking out the Altman website, it says the Altman 3.5Q 10 (23 degree) gives a 16' pool of light at 40' with 11 Footcandles of output. (if i'm reading their product sheet correctly) The Robert Juliat AledIN 631 LED Profile will give you that output with either color temp option with the fixture set at 23 degrees, at 40'. The fixture is a bit bigger than the 3.5Q, but if I'm understanding correctly the nose of the light isn't passing through the 4x4 hole. The pool of light 4" past the nose of the AledIN is 5 1/2" in diameter, but it is very cool. You are able to use plastic gobos or put your fingers in the gate of the AledIN and not be burned. I'm sure you could have a reducing top hat made if need be. The AledIN uses a standard 7 1/2" gel frame size. The AledIN uses an 85w White LED of either 3500k or 5800k color temp, with a total draw of 105w. Please feel free to contact your local Robert Juliat dealer for info on pricing and availability. Pete Robert Juliat USA

The 11 footcandles is actually with the 575watt lamp, most likely the GLC standard life lamp. I personally detest the EHD lamp, it is dim, has awkward color rendering in most fixtures, and has overall poor life (although, with it hanging straight down, it may be less worse than in horizontal fixtures). As Pete is suggesting, an LED fixture, profile or otherwise, may be a wise choice. The newest fixtures are significantly more powerful and efficient, especially if you do not need color mixing capability. The savings in lamps alone begin to make them worth it. Using 1/3 the energy when you leave them on that long adds up. Additionally, you may not necessarily need a profile fixture. Many LED wash fixtures/PARs have 17-23 degree beam angles. Contact a local lighting supplier/installer and try to arrange some demos of units at different prices and of different types.

 

[echnaret]

Not to hijack, but does anyone know how GLG/GLH lamps compare to EHD's? They appear to be [relatively] new, and only use 375 watts.