Installs Altman Floor Box custom machining

[Rhett]

I have old Hub (Chicago, IL) floor boxes installed that match the Altman-style boxes perfectly. Upon researching, I learned that Altman aquired this company. I would like to replace the old boxes with new Altman boxes so that it fits the current hole perfectly. Altman makes the same size box with a blank plate for custom machining, but they do not custom punch their plates. I'm looking to put an edison style outlet, 4 XLR, and 2 speakon connectors on a 4 gang plate.

I've asked several install companies to quote me prices, and each say the box is about $200 and the custom machining ranges from $600 to $900 per plate. Holy cow.

Does anyone have any suggestions? If I go with a different brand box, it won't fit flush and I'm not looking to re-work the wood on the stage. I thought it was a perfect situation that Altman makes identical boxes (probably the same patent). But their boxes are mainly for lighting and electrical. So I would have to have a plate custom punched/labeled, but why so expensive?

Thank you for your help

 

[Les]

You could probably take the blank plates to a machine shop and have the same thing done for a fraction of the price.

 

[jstroming]

Are they aluminum or steel?

Depending on your thickness (and if the box is really thick metal disregard my post!), consider this. I have a Greenlee Punch Kit that I use all the time for custom paneling. They make a hand crank version that runs about $200 if I remember correctly (and can be bought at Home Depot actually), but forget trying to punch anything thicker than a standard aluminum blank MA or Raxxess rack panel with the handcrank one though. Greenlee's hydraulic punch tools are the way to go, however they do get P-R-I-C-E-Y....$1300-$2,000 depending on craziness...again this was a few years ago so my numbers might be off.

And they make dies for every connector you can think of. The dies are the expensive part...however you would only need a "Double D" punch for the edison, and a (15/16" I want to say? Not at my shop right now!) circular punch for the Speakon & XLR, assuming your happy with the standard Neutrik "D" connector that is the most common.

Then you only need 2 punches at about $150-200/ea. Have you tried Redco or Markertek? They have most of the "production company punches" that a local metalworking company would have to buy, maybe that's why your getting charged so much.

You don't mention how many you need, but unless you only need 1 or 2 of these I'd recommend exploring the custom punch route. Most of the touring shops have their own punch sets, due to the constant changing of equipment in racks, while installation companies tend to outsource. Hope this helps!

 

[epimetheus]

I just had a 3/16" aluminum panel custom water jet cut for some camlocks at a local shop near me for $35. If you can sketch the design you want with accurate dimensions, any local machine shop should be able to help you for a reasonable price.

 

[epimetheus]

Are they aluminum or steel?

Depending on your thickness (and if the box is really thick metal disregard my post!), consider this. I have a Greenlee Punch Kit that I use all the time for custom paneling. They make a hand crank version that runs about $200 if I remember correctly (and can be bought at Home Depot actually), but forget trying to punch anything thicker than a standard aluminum blank MA or Raxxess rack panel with the handcrank one though. Greenlee's hydraulic punch tools are the way to go, however they do get P-R-I-C-E-Y....$1300-$2,000 depending on craziness...again this was a few years ago so my numbers might be off.

And they make dies for every connector you can think of. The dies are the expensive part...however you would only need a "Double D" punch for the edison, and a (15/16" I want to say? Not at my shop right now!) circular punch for the Speakon & XLR, assuming your happy with the standard Neutrik "D" connector that is the most common.

Then you only need 2 punches at about $150-200/ea. Have you tried Redco or Markertek? They have most of the "production company punches" that a local metalworking company would have to buy, maybe that's why your getting charged so much.

You don't mention how many you need, but unless you only need 1 or 2 of these I'd recommend exploring the custom punch route. Most of the touring shops have their own punch sets, due to the constant changing of equipment in racks, while installation companies tend to outsource. Hope this helps!

I've got the Greenlee knockout dies for Neutrik D series - it is a 15/16" hole. I bought mine at home depot, it was probably close to $50 bucks. THe XLR's and Speakons are easy, they're just round holes. The Edison are a bit more difficult, depending on how good you want them to look, and what style you want to use. If you use the older style Edisons, you need a way to make the squared-off hole, or you could cut a rectangle and use a regular outlet cover. If you use the decora style Edisons, you could probably mount them directly in your plate - it's just a rectangle.

If it were me, I'd sketch it up and go talk to machine shops. It floored me how cheap it was to get my camlock plate cut, and that included the alumimun plate material itself, plus the CAD work.

 

[museav]

I wonder if the issue might be the mixing of power and low voltage connectivity in the same box. From both an audio and code perspective there may be concerns regarding the power needing to be isolated from the low voltage section of the box. I can see it significantly adding to the cost if they feel they may have to get a stage box in and come up with something like the Ace Backstage AC Isolation Kit to provide such separation.

I also wonder if the prices you are getting are for panels with engraved labeling.

 

[MPowers]

Contact Aaron or Steve at SSRC.

SSRC Main Office 170 Fortis Dr., Duncan, SC 29334
Phone: 864-848-9770 Fax: 864-848-3746
Aaron Clark, President Steve Holland, General Manager
SSRC

They make a lot of distribution products including Wall and floor Pockets. http://www.ssrc.biz/fp_box.pdf

They do custom back boxes and have done custom mixed output styles for me. If you do call them, tell them I sent you.

Michael Powers, Project Manager
ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre
Central Lighting & Equipment Inc.
675 NE 45th Place, Des Moines, Iowa, 50313

 

[Rhett]

Thanks guys. This forum is awesome. It is a 3/8" aluminum plate, and I need 3 boxes. I'm leaning toward a simple Greenlee hand pump with a 15/16" punch. I'm still working on the AC power component, looking for something that would fit with a bigger hole. But since there are several patch bays that I would like to install as well, the punch certainly makes sense.

Yes, AC power in the same box is an issue, and I knew there were standards that would have to be met. The Ace Backstage insulating product is a great idea, so thanks for that.

I did some checking and the labeling was part of the reason for the high expenses. I looked on Redco's site and the custom plates for $5 pretty much solved the labeling issue.

Preciate it guys, that's a huge head-start.

Rhett

 

[epimetheus]

Thanks guys. This forum is awesome. It is a 3/8" aluminum plate, and I need 3 boxes. I'm leaning toward a simple Greenlee hand pump with a 15/16" punch. I'm still working on the AC power component, looking for something that would fit with a bigger hole. But since there are several patch bays that I would like to install as well, the punch certainly makes sense.

Yes, AC power in the same box is an issue, and I knew there were standards that would have to be met. The Ace Backstage insulating product is a great idea, so thanks for that.

I did some checking and the labeling was part of the reason for the high expenses. I looked on Redco's site and the custom plates for $5 pretty much solved the labeling issue.

Preciate it guys, that's a huge head-start.

Rhett

I don't think the Greenlee punchs will do 3/8" aluminum. They're designed for typical electrical panels, junction boxes, etc., which are generally no more than 1/8" thick. I've done 1/8" aluminum and fiberglass just fine, though the fiberglass was a pain to get the slug out of the cup.

Just checked Greenlee's website, the knock-out punches are limited to 10 gauge steel (3.5mm). Like I said, I know they'll do 1/8" aluminum, but i doubt they'll work on anything too much thicker. The problem is with the depth of the cup that the punch is drawn into, it's just not very deep.

 

[BillESC]

Email me a drawing along with dimensions of the blank plate, my shop can work up a quote for you. We build a lot of custom panels.