Amp Advice

Jamyo

Member
Hello all!

I am looking for recommendations on an amp I need to purchase to replace an EV 7100 (100 watts 8 ohms, 2 channel) in a 400 seat auditorium. I have just taken a position with the local high school and their amp is fried due to broken fans, overheating, etc. I am looking at a Crown XLS 1500 but have never worked with the brand before. Any thoughts - suggestions? Thank you in advance!!
 
I've used the XLS DriveCore series in a few systems with no trouble. They weigh next to nothing (compared to the older amps with linear power supplies) and seem to put out very little heat.

I think the XLS 1500 is excessive for your application: it's rated 300W/8ohms in dual mode. The EV7100 is rated 75W/8ohms per channel.
The XLS 1000 is rated 215W/8ohms in dual mode, and costs $100 less.
 
The question is what are you powering . Don't skimp on power. Too little power blows speakers. Having to much gives you headroom within reason. I have run 400 watts into a 75 watt compression driver and been fine.
I have also fried 400 watt woofers with 400 watt amps. So let us know what you are doing and we can help better.
 
The question is what are you powering . Don't skimp on power. Too little power blows speakers. Having to much gives you headroom within reason. I have run 400 watts into a 75 watt compression driver and been fine.
I have also fried 400 watt woofers with 400 watt amps. So let us know what you are doing and we can help better.

How does under powering a speaker harm it? Also Crown makes great amps but if we know what speaker you have it will help us figure out what is best.
 
How does under powering a speaker harm it? Also Crown makes great amps but if we know what speaker you have it will help us figure out what is best.

An under powered amp can be driven into clipping more easily. Clipping creates high frequency harmonics in the output. When an amp is driving a full-range speaker, the crossover dutifully passes along the harmonics caused by clipping to the high frequency driver. It causes more power to be delivered to that driver. If it exceeds the power handling or thermal capabilities, it'll damage the driver. An under powered amp is unlikely to damage low frequency drivers.
 
An under powered amp can be driven into clipping more easily. Clipping creates high frequency harmonics in the output. When an amp is driving a full-range speaker, the crossover dutifully passes along the harmonics caused by clipping to the high frequency driver. It causes more power to be delivered to that driver. If it exceeds the power handling or thermal capabilities, it'll damage the driver. An under powered amp is unlikely to damage low frequency drivers.

So the real lesson is don't have your signal clip.
 
Going in a totally different direction, any idea what caused the existing amp to fail and have those issues been resolved before you spend the money on a replacement? I believe the EV 7100 is convection cooled and has no fans, so I'm not sure what fans would have failed.

It would help to know what loads are actually being driven by the amplifier and whether the EV 7100 is run in "dual" or "bridge" mode.
 
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An under powered amp can be driven into clipping more easily. Clipping creates high frequency harmonics in the output. When an amp is driving a full-range speaker, the crossover dutifully passes along the harmonics caused by clipping to the high frequency driver. It causes more power to be delivered to that driver. If it exceeds the power handling or thermal capabilities, it'll damage the driver. An under powered amp is unlikely to damage low frequency drivers.
Perhaps the more important issue is that a clipped signal may maintain the same peak level but represent an increased average level. This also applies to people who compress or limit a signal to reduce the peak levels and then turn it up, doing so may maintain the same peak levels but increases the average level. And it is the average level that typically relates to thermal failures, one of the most common failure modes of electronics and speakers.

On a more general note, you cannot actually underpower a speaker - what you can have is an underpowered system for an application. If you get all the output, headroom etc. you want and need with 1 Watt of power then the speaker can be properly powered for the application with just 1W of power and not be "underpowered" regardless of the speaker power rating being much greater. On the other hand, if in trying to get sufficient output from the system you are clipping the amplifier before reaching the rated power of the speaker or providing power greater than that for which the speaker is rated then the system is underpowered. The point is that it is the performance of the system in a particular application or in trying to obtain specific results that determines whether a system may be "underpowered" rather than just the device ratings.

On a related note, "headroom" is essentially the difference between the maximum levels the system can support and the levels occurring during operation. I bring this up as it is easy to say that having headroom is good but that is true only if the system operation is such that the difference headroom is used as headroom and not used to try to push the system harder. A savvy operator could run a system with an amplifier rated well above or below the capability of the related speakers by controlling the actual operating levels, however a less experienced operator could easily turn that same situation into a disaster by trying to get greater system output than the system is intended or able to provide.
 
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Without understanding gain-structure it is easier to send a square-wave to your amps(think dumb DJ, and all red lights). Also a square wave at the same amplitude, is twice the output of a sine wave.
What signal source to use for setting gain structure is a topic of debate since music can have crest factors ranging from a few dB to 20dB or greater depending on the genre of music and how it is processed. But the issue of crest factor really comes into play when looking at longer term or average levels of signals while the peak levels involved would likely be the same regardless of the crest factor.

Thus while a square wave has a 0dB crest factor rather than the 3dB crest factor of a sine wave, the peak levels would be the same and it would be the average levels that vary. If you are getting more advanced and addressing both peak and average levels, as in setting both peak and average limiters, then a square wave would be very conservative to the point of essentially having the same peak and average levels and thus setting the 'average' limiters at the same level as the peak limiters.
 
Without understanding gain-structure it is easier to send a square-wave to your amps(think dumb DJ, and all red lights). Also a square wave at the same amplitude, is twice the output of a sine wave.
I just get annoyed when people simply say that under powering a speaker damages it and leave it at that. If you are concerned that it might get driven into clipping then maybe we should start suggesting that people should make sure an amp can properly fill the room without over powering the speaker.
 
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I just get annoyed when people simply say that under powering a speaker damages it and leave it at that. If you are concerned that it might get driven into clipping then maybe we should start suggesting that people should make sure an amp can properly fill the room without over powering the speaker.
That's why while many people use 'rules of thumb' based on the speaker power rating for selecting amps for portable or generic use, a different approach is commonly used for installed systems.

When designing installed systems it is common to start by determining the sound level you want in the room including an assumed crest factor that is appropriate for the application (typically 10-12dB but might be 20dB+ for some applications). The value established for the desired level in the room is then used to determine the output required from the speakers in order to obtain those levels. Once you know the desired speaker output and the speaker sensitivity you can determine the power required at the speaker. You can then add in any line losses, desired headroom, etc. to determine the amplifier output desired. Finally, verify that the speaker can handle that power and if not look for other speaker options.

The thing to note in this process is that the amplifier selection is based on the desired results, not the speaker power rating. In fact the speaker power rating is not even a factor in selecting the amplifier and is relevant only in going back at the end to verify that the speaker can handle the power required for the application.
 
I just get annoyed when people simply say that under powering a speaker damages it and leave it at that. If you are concerned that it might get driven into clipping then maybe we should start suggesting that people should make sure an amp can properly fill the room without over powering the speaker.
I did not say that at all. I just get annoyed, when people make erroneous inferences. Also you either have a very small room or a very large amp, if one can fill the entire room, then again one computer used to fill an entire room, so maybe you just have very old amps.
 

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