Beam Projector Rental?
- Thread startermstutzman
- Start date
I have access to a meat rack full of Strand-Century 4122 (10") fixtures. How long do you need them and when?
sent from my HTC Incredible
sent from my HTC Incredible
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Sorry, I've only got the one.
I know that either PRG-LV or PRG-LA supplied a Madonna tour with about fifty of them a few years ago. I'd try contacting area university/college theatre departments to see if they'd be willing to rent, but I doubt they'd have four matching units, most have/had two or three in varying sizes.
Some names not on your list:
Scharff Weisberg, Inc.
Big Apple Lights Corp New York, NY, 10013 - YELLOWPAGES.COM
Altman Rentals Home Page
The Strand-Century 4122 is a 10" Beam Projector using a BTL/BTN/BTR (500/750/1000W) lamp. From the Photometrics Handbook:
Question for old people:
How are beam projectors designated? I always thought it was by the can diameter, but mine, pictured above, (not marked, is either a Century [fibre 2P&G plug says Century] or Altman 660) takes a 13-5/8"x13-5/8" color frame, but the reflector is 9-9/16" in diameter. So I guess it's a 10"?
Question for old people:
How are beam projectors designated? I always thought it was by the can diameter, but mine, pictured above, (not marked, is either a Century [fibre 2P&G plug says Century] or Altman 660) takes a 13-5/8"x13-5/8" color frame, but the reflector is 9-9/16" in diameter. So I guess it's a 10"?
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JD
Well-Known Member
View attachment 3473
Sorry, I've only got the one.
I know that either PRG-LV or PRG-LA supplied a Madonna tour with about fifty of them a few years ago. I'd try contacting area university/college theatre departments to see if they'd be willing to rent, but I doubt they'd have four matching units, most have/had two or three in varying sizes.
Some names not on your list:
Scharff Weisberg, Inc.
Big Apple Lights Corp New York, NY, 10013 - YELLOWPAGES.COM
Altman Rentals Home Page
Love the strain relief on that one pictured!
meatpopsicle
Active Member
See Factor has an a## load of them. I used them on Rescue Me last season.
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JD
Well-Known Member
I have about 4 of those in great disrepair back in the shed. They used a two part ring frame that was no usual dimension as compared to the frame clips pictured. What I always believed (as well) was that the reflector size was what they went by. Mine were 10 inch (or, at least sold to me as such back in the 70s.) Never actually measured them.
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Scrapped 8 Reich and Vogel 1000w units about a year ago. Sitting around way too long, very heavy, not being used and a current draw of nearly 50a at 24v. Did keep two Pani fixtures, but they have the same appetite. Might try Shadowstone SHADOWSTONE , or find a rental house with the newer Mole HMI beam projectors.
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Tried Altman rentals?
Otherwise, In general, there is huge differences between beam projectors. The BP-2, the R&V for instance are way different than an Altman version - than we get into the various R&V wattages - I know of a 1Kw and 500w version both low voltage. How powerful an intensity are you looking for? Remember at one point prepping some Altman units for a tour, this verses renting than buying some R&V 500w versions and turning them into follow spots with custom made color changes. Stuff bought "used" needed a total sevice call. "You guys sent it out like that?"
Give anything you might find in rental a good inspection and provide a few days should replacent be needed. This and or the parts and labor you spend on something rented for a show should come off that rental fee or send it back. Often where I work... it's like they send us the worst of their gear so we will fix it for them - this for movers up to major last minute upgrade or repairs so it gets out the door, this or at least blow out the cob webs and clean the lenses before use at times... Inspect your rental gear - much of the lighting industry is years beyond what concepts for gear Bash in the 90's might have had for rental or sale. (Remember even some Altman Rentals Scoops at one point that needed work - beyond stuff from the Borg or local suppliers. It's Altman renting their own gear and it needs work? Given this was few years ago and might have been an off day for them.) Could be good well maintained and prepped gear (there are companies that take pride in their gear rental or show), could be crap that's going to fail or have snowballs for lamps amongst other problems such as it don't work. Leave a few days to personally inspect and clean any rental gear as if your own in prepping it for a show - but that from the boneyard in needing work type time. Don't rely upon what you rent is up to your standards or what is show ready unless you have rented from them before and often, and it's to your standards. Hope for the best and many will be good, but some is really bad and needs time to work on or exchange. Advice is don't hold up your show by late arriving rental from a company you are not sure of. Stock that isn't ready for use, expect it needs work and hope it don't often needs work. What work is needed or even if it's servicable gear is in the contract before hand.
Than for rental contract comes up the question of who is supplying rental lamps which could become important if the lamps suplied fail too fast or were crap to start with. At what point during the rental does the renter assume responsibility for lamps that need to be changed? Designer walks down the line and says... replace that one, that one, that one etc. easily often adds up to the over 20% of spare lamps provided. This assuming initial cleaning an inspection don't get 90% of them snowball lamps that would already before being plugged in, dark and dim, much less not last long after that. (This for some arc lamps obviously, and a bit harder to tell for filament types beyond some signs.)
Anyway point is, inspect the rental gear (rented ready to use) upon getting it. Test it and inspect the lamps, reflectors, lenses etc., as if your own and it has not been used in years. Test the fixtures also. What needs to be done to make what you got servicable can be negotiated by way of sending back or money off your rental which isn't up to your standards to fix at you pay rate. MR-16 cyc lights rented recently... sent back a half dozen that had bad bases, wiring and lamps thus didn't work and were not ready for use, yet were sent as rental gear. Cob webs you can deal with, bad base or lamp even before the show leaves your area... that's different and is either going to cost you or the rental company money.
Rental of some line voltage Selcon Lekos recently that are going thru lamps left and right on tour. Is it a problem with power at the places on the tour, a problem in say someone touching the lamps or too much haze in the atmosphere, a bunch of old lamps, problem with bases etc? Don't know, have not gotten back any of the bad lamps. At what point and after how many hours is it my responsibility to replace the lamps as the end user for rented fixtures, verses the owner of the gear problem in causing the failures - light goes out during show problem as problem? My fixtures don't normally go out from other than natural causes - assuming a shop trained staff changing them and not putting a perfectly good lamp into a bad base. Normally at least. Negotiatating with the renter on the Leko's about the lamps... our problem, their's... the more it goes on the more it's mine - this especially given a free lance crew and I have not inspected for cause of failure any of the bad lamps.
Have a few year long world tour where I work, we discussed lamp replacement and refined it to say two to three months long for a rented lamp to last as a concept. Before that, it's the renter's responsibility, after that, it's mine. Obviously that's based on lamp hours and hours of operation of the lamp during the show. But assuming a norm of 750 hours per lamp at it's rated voltage, that should be sufficient in concept. Given one is starting with snowball lamps for the rented fixtures... what kind of crap are these and they should be replaced before starting the show. After that, for the first few hundred hours or months of opertion, agreed upon, replacement lamps are provided by the rental company. After that, in assuming a long rental, the lamps used provided are approved of by the owner of the gear and provided by the renter. Also the fixture should be maintained in good working order and given movers that run hot.. that especially with free lance crews not trained by me - is hard to get. This fixture specifies that every three lamps at 750 hours, the base should be changed. So if I'm shooting for 1,000 hour changes at least, them inspecting the ends of the lamp to see when it's got a bad base, or perhaps be suspicious when you get an outer pinch failure before 750 hours in perhaps this toasted and tattooed base is "bad" swap it out already. What caused this lamp to fail? Bad lamp... thanks. What caused the lamp to fail? Normally after a few hundred hours, and a few premiture lamps failing, the crew does change the lamp base - once they have to pry a welded lamp to base from it, or the wiring is melted down and has to replace it also. Just takes one or two perfectly good lamps installed into a bad base before it gets too bad to keep throwing away money at. Lamp fails at 180 hours due to outer pinch failure... toss a new lamp in it and get it running again.
This from rental or even our gear - I mention free lancers working our shows - often don't care, but in general it's also a concept of training about lamp/fixtures in general and asking a basic question when removing a lamp? Why did this lamp fail? Why are the Selcon rental lamps failiing? I don't know given I have not been sent back any for anylisis as to their cause. Why are they failiing, the road crew is not sufficiently trained for the gear they are using so as to figure out what the problem with the gear is when changing lamps. That's also an industry problem in training overall.
Concept perhaps to stipulate in your rental contracts. First approval of the lamps and gear - no more bucket of good verses bucket of bad lamps chosen for fixtures sent out as I'm told about for rented or small shows. (Really this does happen - bucket of good or bad lamps.) Upon arrival of the gear, you inspect and test it and it's lamps and approve of them in use. Than afterwards, an established lamp expectancy for the lamps pre-approved of. At such a specific date, you assume responsibility for re-lamping them might be good to add to any contract. Almost 20 years ago, I finger FU@&$# a bunch of lamps being used on a show. I was new and what do you want from a carpenter prepping the gear? Blew the budget for a few months in getting replacement lamps for the needed fixtures. Who's prepping the gear you are getting for rental - if they are prepping it at all first day person in not knowing better, some free lance person that didn't get trained with the company for policies they use? Cob webs in the lens train? Perhaps if mover or halogen lamp in general at least for a rental, re-clean the lamps if not all else. Cob webs - bad to find on rented gear.. beyond that in fully tested a world of problems. Leave extra time for rented gear.
This as with testing and prepping your rented gear well before the show in hoping it's good but expecting it needing a few days to exchange or fix. A note, get it on the contract the expected lamp hours so it won't hurt you if their problem in the end if a problem.
Otherwise, In general, there is huge differences between beam projectors. The BP-2, the R&V for instance are way different than an Altman version - than we get into the various R&V wattages - I know of a 1Kw and 500w version both low voltage. How powerful an intensity are you looking for? Remember at one point prepping some Altman units for a tour, this verses renting than buying some R&V 500w versions and turning them into follow spots with custom made color changes. Stuff bought "used" needed a total sevice call. "You guys sent it out like that?"
Give anything you might find in rental a good inspection and provide a few days should replacent be needed. This and or the parts and labor you spend on something rented for a show should come off that rental fee or send it back. Often where I work... it's like they send us the worst of their gear so we will fix it for them - this for movers up to major last minute upgrade or repairs so it gets out the door, this or at least blow out the cob webs and clean the lenses before use at times... Inspect your rental gear - much of the lighting industry is years beyond what concepts for gear Bash in the 90's might have had for rental or sale. (Remember even some Altman Rentals Scoops at one point that needed work - beyond stuff from the Borg or local suppliers. It's Altman renting their own gear and it needs work? Given this was few years ago and might have been an off day for them.) Could be good well maintained and prepped gear (there are companies that take pride in their gear rental or show), could be crap that's going to fail or have snowballs for lamps amongst other problems such as it don't work. Leave a few days to personally inspect and clean any rental gear as if your own in prepping it for a show - but that from the boneyard in needing work type time. Don't rely upon what you rent is up to your standards or what is show ready unless you have rented from them before and often, and it's to your standards. Hope for the best and many will be good, but some is really bad and needs time to work on or exchange. Advice is don't hold up your show by late arriving rental from a company you are not sure of. Stock that isn't ready for use, expect it needs work and hope it don't often needs work. What work is needed or even if it's servicable gear is in the contract before hand.
Than for rental contract comes up the question of who is supplying rental lamps which could become important if the lamps suplied fail too fast or were crap to start with. At what point during the rental does the renter assume responsibility for lamps that need to be changed? Designer walks down the line and says... replace that one, that one, that one etc. easily often adds up to the over 20% of spare lamps provided. This assuming initial cleaning an inspection don't get 90% of them snowball lamps that would already before being plugged in, dark and dim, much less not last long after that. (This for some arc lamps obviously, and a bit harder to tell for filament types beyond some signs.)
Anyway point is, inspect the rental gear (rented ready to use) upon getting it. Test it and inspect the lamps, reflectors, lenses etc., as if your own and it has not been used in years. Test the fixtures also. What needs to be done to make what you got servicable can be negotiated by way of sending back or money off your rental which isn't up to your standards to fix at you pay rate. MR-16 cyc lights rented recently... sent back a half dozen that had bad bases, wiring and lamps thus didn't work and were not ready for use, yet were sent as rental gear. Cob webs you can deal with, bad base or lamp even before the show leaves your area... that's different and is either going to cost you or the rental company money.
Rental of some line voltage Selcon Lekos recently that are going thru lamps left and right on tour. Is it a problem with power at the places on the tour, a problem in say someone touching the lamps or too much haze in the atmosphere, a bunch of old lamps, problem with bases etc? Don't know, have not gotten back any of the bad lamps. At what point and after how many hours is it my responsibility to replace the lamps as the end user for rented fixtures, verses the owner of the gear problem in causing the failures - light goes out during show problem as problem? My fixtures don't normally go out from other than natural causes - assuming a shop trained staff changing them and not putting a perfectly good lamp into a bad base. Normally at least. Negotiatating with the renter on the Leko's about the lamps... our problem, their's... the more it goes on the more it's mine - this especially given a free lance crew and I have not inspected for cause of failure any of the bad lamps.
Have a few year long world tour where I work, we discussed lamp replacement and refined it to say two to three months long for a rented lamp to last as a concept. Before that, it's the renter's responsibility, after that, it's mine. Obviously that's based on lamp hours and hours of operation of the lamp during the show. But assuming a norm of 750 hours per lamp at it's rated voltage, that should be sufficient in concept. Given one is starting with snowball lamps for the rented fixtures... what kind of crap are these and they should be replaced before starting the show. After that, for the first few hundred hours or months of opertion, agreed upon, replacement lamps are provided by the rental company. After that, in assuming a long rental, the lamps used provided are approved of by the owner of the gear and provided by the renter. Also the fixture should be maintained in good working order and given movers that run hot.. that especially with free lance crews not trained by me - is hard to get. This fixture specifies that every three lamps at 750 hours, the base should be changed. So if I'm shooting for 1,000 hour changes at least, them inspecting the ends of the lamp to see when it's got a bad base, or perhaps be suspicious when you get an outer pinch failure before 750 hours in perhaps this toasted and tattooed base is "bad" swap it out already. What caused this lamp to fail? Bad lamp... thanks. What caused the lamp to fail? Normally after a few hundred hours, and a few premiture lamps failing, the crew does change the lamp base - once they have to pry a welded lamp to base from it, or the wiring is melted down and has to replace it also. Just takes one or two perfectly good lamps installed into a bad base before it gets too bad to keep throwing away money at. Lamp fails at 180 hours due to outer pinch failure... toss a new lamp in it and get it running again.
This from rental or even our gear - I mention free lancers working our shows - often don't care, but in general it's also a concept of training about lamp/fixtures in general and asking a basic question when removing a lamp? Why did this lamp fail? Why are the Selcon rental lamps failiing? I don't know given I have not been sent back any for anylisis as to their cause. Why are they failiing, the road crew is not sufficiently trained for the gear they are using so as to figure out what the problem with the gear is when changing lamps. That's also an industry problem in training overall.
Concept perhaps to stipulate in your rental contracts. First approval of the lamps and gear - no more bucket of good verses bucket of bad lamps chosen for fixtures sent out as I'm told about for rented or small shows. (Really this does happen - bucket of good or bad lamps.) Upon arrival of the gear, you inspect and test it and it's lamps and approve of them in use. Than afterwards, an established lamp expectancy for the lamps pre-approved of. At such a specific date, you assume responsibility for re-lamping them might be good to add to any contract. Almost 20 years ago, I finger FU@&$# a bunch of lamps being used on a show. I was new and what do you want from a carpenter prepping the gear? Blew the budget for a few months in getting replacement lamps for the needed fixtures. Who's prepping the gear you are getting for rental - if they are prepping it at all first day person in not knowing better, some free lance person that didn't get trained with the company for policies they use? Cob webs in the lens train? Perhaps if mover or halogen lamp in general at least for a rental, re-clean the lamps if not all else. Cob webs - bad to find on rented gear.. beyond that in fully tested a world of problems. Leave extra time for rented gear.
This as with testing and prepping your rented gear well before the show in hoping it's good but expecting it needing a few days to exchange or fix. A note, get it on the contract the expected lamp hours so it won't hurt you if their problem in the end if a problem.
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mstutzman
Member
Thanks everyone! Yes, I have learned more about Beam Projectors in the last month than I ever wanted to know. Most rental houses just didnt have them, what they do have has been sitting in the back for a while. I think what my designer is looking for is a couple of onstage and offstage positions, along the lines of the Les Mis spots. I think the offstage positions could be done with S4 spot riggs but the onstage are more or less dressing. In a perfect world I think the HMI's would be gorgeous, but in reality we are or were looking for a cheap and dirty solution. Its not turning out to be cheap, dirty or easy.
I have a lot of leads and I think in the end we will find what we need. Thanks again all.
I have a lot of leads and I think in the end we will find what we need. Thanks again all.
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