Best ML under $2000

[techno89]

Hey CB,

My principal told me this year that I can make a list of things I want for theatre since they haven't spent much money on it in a while and if he doesn't spend the extra money at the end of the year he looses it. I am putting it in order or importance and before you all go screaming gafftaper method these will be low on that list. I have used ML's in the school before and thought they were effective. That in mind I would like to know in your guys opinion the best:

1) Spot 500w or higher that is less than $2000

and

2) Wash 500w or higher that is less than $2000

Thanks Guys!
-Scott

 

[Wood4321]

IMHO, Nothing under 2k new is worth buying.

How many fixtures were you thinking of purchasing?
Perhaps we can find a balance of less fixtures, at a higher price.

Remember, the lamps for most moving fixtures cost between $125-$250 each.
These lamps are good to around 400 hours of operation in most cases. (MSD Lamps last a bit longer, but these are usually 250 watt fixtures)
And if you push the lamps past 600-700 hours, you risk the chance of a "Non-passive lamp failure" Causing hundreds if not thousands of dollars in damage to the fixture.

Now in thinking about it, are you willing to purchase used fixtures?
Perhaps you could see if you could find some used Studio Spot/Color 575 for less than 2k each.
Studio 575 series fixtures are pretty reliable, and repairable.
Not the brightest fixture, but it may fall into your price range.

Good luck,
Joshua Wood

 

[techno89]

IMHO, Nothing under 2k new is worth buying.

How many fixtures were you thinking of purchasing?
Perhaps we can find a balance of less fixtures, at a higher price.

Remember, the lamps for most moving fixtures cost between $125-$250 each.
These lamps are good to around 400 hours of operation in most cases. (MSD Lamps last a bit longer, but these are usually 250 watt fixtures)
And if you push the lamps past 600-700 hours, you risk the chance of a "Non-passive lamp failure" Causing hundreds if not thousands of dollars in damage to the fixture.

Now in thinking about it, are you willing to purchase used fixtures?
Perhaps you could see if you could find some used Studio Spot/Color 575 for less than 2k each.
Studio 575 series fixtures are pretty reliable, and repairable.
Not the brightest fixture, but it may fall into your price range.

Good luck,
Joshua Wood

I would purchase used, I would have no issue buying those Studio Colors that are up on 4Wall's site but the school I believe is not allowed to buy used equipment.

 

[gafftaper]

You are probably right that the school is not allowed to buy used equipment. Most states require that.

Other than that I am Gafftaper so you know what I think about schools buying moving lights vs a collection of DMX accessories.

Post your current inventory, your proposed shopping list and your budget. We'll be glad to give you advice.

 

[Sayen]

I found out that many places can buy used, if you go through actual vendors and follow state bidding rules. It's a lot more work, but I saved a ton of money this year buying used gear for my auditorium. Call your purchasing department and explain what you're trying to do and why so you know the exact rules, and then speak with a local dealer. Many of them carry used equipment from time to time. It's different from EBAY, but it works.

 

[techno89]

There is no set budget its really whats left at the end of the year and its not all going to the auditorium. Before ML's I will be asking for a few source four zooms, some par cans and other conventionals before I ask for ML's.

I will update you guys soon!
Thanks for the help!

-Scott

 

[Wood4321]

I probably wouldn't be buying zooms, But thats just me.
I find them to be bulky, and not as useful as a standard source 4 with a few lens barrels.
Hard to focus, and they don't keep their focus well, even with the double clutch yoke.
The only time I use them is when I have a specific gobo that needs to be an exact size.
Or if I don't know my throw distance until I get on site.
Otherwise, the "normal" source 4's in my inventory get much more use.

And I personally would go for Source 4 pars, unless you need the "par shaped" beam in narrow and very narrow angles.

What desk are you running?
Is there DMX from the booth to the stage?
And Gafftaper's question about your current inventory will help narrow down your needs greatly.

 

[Pie4Weebl]

I would purchase used, I would have no issue buying those Studio Colors that are up on 4Wall's site but the school I believe is not allowed to buy used equipment.

You REALLY, REALLY, REALLY don't want to do that. promise. Unless you have a few dozen igniter cards laying around...

 

[techno89]

I will look into just regular S4's but the zoom seemed like a good option. Once I go to school tomorrow I will double check the inventory. And thanks Pie4Weebl, is that a common issue? I thought they were reliable because I have 4 studio spots that in 10 years never needed to be repaired.

 

[Pie4Weebl]

I will look into just regular S4's but the zoom seemed like a good option. Once I go to school tomorrow I will double check the inventory. And thanks Pie4Weebl, is that a common issue? I thought they were reliable because I have 4 studio spots that in 10 years never needed to be repaired.

I toured with 5 active studio colors for 3 months and 5 cards failed on me over that time.

 

[derekleffew]

...1) Spot 500w or higher that is less than $2000? ...

There isn't one, unless you're willing able to consider a used, ten year-old Studio Spot or MAC 500.

...2) Wash 500w or higher that is less than $2000? ...

Martin Professional MAC 101 LED Moving Head Wash Light | Full Compass , but whether it's appropriate for your application is another question entirely.

 

[bishopthomas]

I will have to disagree with those saying it's not possible. I have sold all of my MAC250's and replaced them with Elation Platinum Spot 5R's. They're $2000 (let me know how many you're buying and I can get you better pricing), small and fast, draw the same power as a 250 watt unit, and is much brighter than a 250. Elation claims that they are "as bright as" a 575. I've never compared them side by side but I do know that they are significantly brighter than my MAC250's. Plus, they have a frost filter so you can use them as wash units as well. I've been really happy with mine and can't wait to get more.

 

[len]

A few more thots:

1. Best under $2K based on the typical advertised price, or what you can actually get them for? Depending on how new the model is, you might be able to negotiate a lower price. Something newly released, not so much.

2. Many newer 250 lamps are as bright as older 575. I'd consider output more than lamp size.

3. A profile might not have the colors you need. Make sure you can swap out colors individually.

4. If you need cases for them (not likely, but something to consider) you should factor that into your budget.

 

[techno89]

Thanks for the advice Len and yes I mean what you can actually get.

I was looking at the Elation Design Spot 250 and the Design Wash 250, any opinions on those fixtures guys?

 

[Pie4Weebl]

Here is the problem with those moving lights, while 250s may be brighter than than they used to be, they still aren't going to cut through your wash when you bring up the conventionals. If your doing a talent show they might be fun, but for a play or musical, they aren't going to have the needed punch.

 

[techno89]

Thats the one thing I am worried about. I am looking into that now.

 

[LXPlot]

Why not buy accessories instead? For 2000 dollars, you could buy 2 color mixer scrollers from apollo, or 3 generic scrollers, or 3 gobo rotators or 3 Rosco Icues, or just under 2 right arms....

The list goes on, but a Source Four on an Icue or Right Arm is going to have far more punch than any ML you could possibly afford. If you add a mixer scroller, then you have a fixture with the two functions of an ML that would likely be used the most, and with all the punch and reliability of a Source Four.

Although in your position, I would probably purchase some more conventionals.

 

[len]

Thanks for the advice Len and yes I mean what you can actually get.

I was looking at the Elation Design Spot 250 and the Design Wash 250, any opinions on those fixtures guys?

Not bad, especially for the money. I've only used the 250 spot, and it's now a DS 250 Pro or something. It's decent, but Elation does, IMO, some goofy things. For example, the default 50/50 position of the head is 90 degrees off what most other fixtures are, which can be an issue if you're unfamiliar with them. I hate the gobos. I mean really hate them. But at least they're replaceable if you spend the money. The wash effect is kind of cool. But for the money, they're not bad.

And what I meant earlier is that many products have a retail price, and a MAP, or Minimum Advertised Price, but that doesn't mean much. You can buy them for less than that. Since you're connected to a school, they'll want a number of bids in writing anyway. Which also means you might have to forward a list of specs to the suppliers and see what best meets the specs. i would contact the mfg. directly and see what they can do for you.

 

[photoatdv]

Why not buy accessories instead? For 2000 dollars, you could buy 2 color mixer scrollers from apollo, or 3 generic scrollers, or 3 gobo rotators or 3 Rosco Icues, or just under 2 right arms....

The list goes on, but a Source Four on an Icue or Right Arm is going to have far more punch than any ML you could possibly afford. If you add a mixer scroller, then you have a fixture with the two functions of an ML that would likely be used the most, and with all the punch and reliability of a Source Four.

Although in your position, I would probably purchase some more conventionals.

I respectfully have to disagree.

A few years ago I was in the same place as most high schoolers on here and just wanted toys to play with (LEDs and movers mostly). My school didn't have any that worked and half the time didn't even have lamps for the conventionals. I got a little bit of experience with the "toys" on some of the bigger shows with a budget, but never really got the chance to design with them.

Now in the professional world I almost always have moving lights and LEDs on shows, or had the option if I really wanted them (granted a lot of the time they are beat up old units, so sometimes I choose not to use them). However the biggest thing that has held me back and that I still struggle with is that I'm just way better with conventionals. Can I program movers? Sure. Ditto on the LEDs, scrollers, ect. But it's not second nature like conventionals.

So, yes, I think high schools need moving lights. And before the flood gates open I don't mean they need 30 each VL3500 spots and washes. I just mean they need a few and need to teach how to design/program with them. And not only that, please, please, please, at least teach the basics of troubleshooting and maintenance (I've had far too many people on shows that can program but wouldn't have the slightest clue what an ignitor or color wheel is!).

 

[Pie4Weebl]

So, yes, I think high schools need moving lights. And before the flood gates open I don't mean they need 30 each VL3500 spots and washes. I just mean they need a few and need to teach how to design/program with them. And not only that, please, please, please, at least teach the basics of troubleshooting and maintenance (I've had far too many people on shows that can program but wouldn't have the slightest clue what an ignitor or color wheel is!).

I think its been argued before that high schools aren't really there to teach design, if you want to learn that, that is what college is for. And really, if you want to learn how moving lights work, the best place to do that is at a rental house, the larger the better.

And I laugh at your statement about teaching the basics of troubleshooting moving lights to highschoolers. In all the times I've done highschool shows, or shows at any venue, all I would like is if my stagehands knew how to run DMX, and I consider that a bonus! Last thing in the world I want are more "king of the booth" highschoolers thinking they are "moving light gurus" who know more than me!