Blank Firing in High school theatre

[hslighting]

My director wants to use a blank firing gun in our production of Oklahoma! and our scenic designer and I are trying to convince him atleast to add a lot of safety features. Does anyone have links to any articles or webpages about accidents with these or guidlines for doing so? I have seen the posts on here on the topic but i was just wondering if anyone has some solid articles on it?

 

[chausman]

Have you Googled "Prop Gun Theater", and read hose articles? I went through this earlier this year...twice. As well as searching with things like "prop gun" in our CB search? We've had some good threads before.


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[ruinexplorer]

My director wants to use a blank firing gun in our production of Oklahoma! and our scenic designer and I are trying to convince him atleast to add a lot of safety features. Does anyone have links to any articles or webpages about accidents with these or guidlines for doing so? I have seen the posts on here on the topic but i was just wondering if anyone has some solid articles on it?

Start with our Wiki article about it. Then check out a couple of the specific threads talking about student/performer deaths and injuries that have been posted on CB like this or this.

In reality, before having any prop firearms on stage (that have any kind of firing capability), you should have a trained professional fightmaster set up your safety program. We have some as members here on CB. As gafftaper will often tell you, don't bother with the actual blank firing weapon and stick with a non-functioning unit and use a 1x4 "slap" to mimick the sound.

Encourage your director to spend some time here on the forums and we can help him to understand what he is getting into by using a prop gun (and make sure that it is a proper stage weapon and not a real weapon firing blanks).

 

[hslighting]

Thanks for all the advice. Although i have not heard all the details yet he did pull out the weapon today and showed it to the cast possibly doing a safety briefing? I dont even know how he got approval from the school with the kind of policies in place these days. I guess it is a grey area.

 

[Footer]

It is a fairly large gray area, any track coach will tell you that.

Read the wiki article. Read all the links on the wiki article.

I have played "weapons guy" many times. If you are trained in using real fire arms many of the same things carry over. There are some additional steps to add a few layers of safety. Get a hold of a local fight director who can bring in a legit rigged stage gun, proper blanks, and can help build the scene. Where the person being shot is, where the gun is point, and where all that is in relation to other cast members and the audience really do matter.

When I did THE Oklahoma! (Performed in the state centennial in Oklahoma City with a budget that still makes me wonder how we spent it all) we had numerous live guns onstage. It really is a nice effect. However, we also had one guy that ALL he did was manage the firearms. We bought all of our weapons from Weapons of Choice.

Finally, you don't want to do this version of Oklahoma!:Utah justices hear case of teen killed in prop gun accident | The Salt Lake Tribune

 

[Sony]

As someone who has a License to Carry Concealed Weapons Class A in the state of Massachusetts I must tell you to BE VERY CAREFUL. Especially in your home state of New York. New York gun laws are VERY STRICT and handguns (pistols and the like) are pretty much outright banned, you can't get a Carry Concealed Handgun permit in NY without going through some crazy loops. It's almost completely reserved for Police Officers. If I were you I would do as ruinexplorer said and use an unloaded gun with a 1x4 slap stick.

That being said, here at NNHS we DO use blank firing prop guns with real blanks. However BOTH MYSELF and MY BOSS have LTC's in the state of Massachusetts with extensive firearms training and we have permission from the school administration and STRICT handling and training policies are enforced. Not only that but the guns we have (We have .38 Caliber Magnum revolver pistols) are specifically PROP guns, they cannot fire real bullets, the barrels are plugged and non-blanks will not fit in the chambers. They were purchases specifically as prop weapons. NEVER USE A REAL GUN AS A PROP WEAPON!!!! This is how people CAN DIE and HAVE DIED. People use real guns as prop guns without proper training or technique and even though they may be blanks, they can still fire small shrapnel from the casing as well as the powder itself at HIGH velocity. If any of that shrapnel leaves the barrel it will be propelled at the same velocity as a REAL bullet. Please look up the death of Brandon Lee (Bruce Lee's son) for an example of this.

STRICT PROCEDURES MUST BE FOLLOWED (These are the procedures we use)

1. The firearm must be specifically a prop firearm! Plugged Barrel, Unable to accept real rounds.
2. The firearm(s) are kept UNLOADED in a locked safe up until about 20 minutes before use. Only myself and my boss have the combination/key
3. ALL students are lectured (ALL OF THEM, not just the ones firing) about firearm safety throughout the ENTIRE rehearsal process.
4. Any misuse of or fooling with the weapon during the show or rehearsal process WILL result in disciplinary action NO IF, AND'S, OR BUT'S.
5. The firearm when not on stage is handled ONLY by myself or my boss, the firearm is handed to the student(s) using the firearm on stage ONLY by myself or my boss already loaded and ready to go. No other students are allowed to touch the firearm.
6. The firearm is prepped and loaded ONLY by myself or my boss.
7. When the firearm comes off stage it is IMMEDIATELY handed to myself or my boss
8. When the firearm is used for the last time during the performance, it IMMEDIATELY comes off stage is handed to myself or my boss and immediately UNLOADED and placed in the safe and LOCKED.
9. The firearm is NEVER pointed at ANYONE directly, it is ALWAYS aimed to the left or to the right of the intended "target." From the audience, no one can tell if the firearm is aimed upstage or downstage of the intended "target" so in case a piece of shrapnel does somehow come out of the barrel (even though this is theoretically not possible with a prop gun) it will not hit anyone.
10. ALL personnel within 20 feet of the firearm while it's firing is wearing ear protection.
11. The firearm is NEVER pointed in the direction of the audience.
12. When the firearm is on stage but not being used, it is ALWAYS pointed in a safe direction, usually the floor or the ceiling.

Firearm safety is NOT a joke, I AM a licensed firearms user in the state of Massachusetts. I do IPDA shooting around New England and I DO NOT recommend using blanks UNLESS you yourself (which I guarantee you don't) or someone on your crew is also licensed in YOUR state. Especially considering you are in New York State where handgun licenses are VERY difficult to procure. Also knowing New York and their detailed theatre laws, there is most likely a weapons master requirement for any theatre that wants to use a blank firing prop firearm. So unless you or one of your fellow students has a father who is a police officer and is willing to supervise. I would definitely recommend the No blanks and a 1x4 piece of wood method.

Seriously...do not screw with this stuff, inform your administration of what the teacher is doing. This is serious stuff, I'm giving you this information because I figured if your are informed about the proper procedures you will realize how much of a bad idea this is and others will too. Also if you do ignore my warnings (WHICH YOU SHOULDN'T!!!) and go ahead with this at least your will KNOW the proper safety procedures and hopefully follow them.

 

[avkid]

New York gun laws are VERY STRICT and handguns (pistols and the like) are pretty much outright banned, you can't get a Carry Concealed Handgun permit in NY without going through some crazy loops. It's almost completely reserved for Police Officers.

Not true, at least outside of NY Metro. (New York, Queens and Kings counties)

 

[Footer]

5. The firearm when not on stage is handled ONLY by myself or my boss, the firearm is handed to the student(s) using the firearm on stage ONLY by myself or my boss already loaded and ready to go. No other students are allowed to touch the firearm.
6. The firearm is prepped and loaded ONLY by myself or my boss.
7. When the firearm comes off stage it is IMMEDIATELY handed to myself or my boss
8. When the firearm is used for the last time during the performance, it IMMEDIATELY comes off stage is handed to myself or my boss and immediately UNLOADED and placed in the safe and LOCKED.
9. The firearm is NEVER pointed at ANYONE directly, it is ALWAYS aimed to the left or to the right of the intended "target." From the audience, no one can tell if the firearm is aimed upstage or downstage of the intended "target" so in case a piece of shrapnel does somehow come out of the barrel (even though this is theoretically not possible with a prop gun) it will not hit anyone.
10. ALL personnel within 20 feet of the firearm while it's firing is wearing ear protection.
11. The firearm is NEVER pointed in the direction of the audience.
12. When the firearm is on stage but not being used, it is ALWAYS pointed in a safe direction, usually the floor or the ceil?ing.

I have a few major issues here. First, any stage gun should never be able to fire real rounds at any time in its life. A welded barrel does not make it a prop gun.

Secondly, the person being fired at should do the loading. This is standard practice anywhere I have worked.


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[chausman]

I Secondly, the person being fired at should do the loading. This is standard practice anywhere I have worked.

Why? What is the reasoning behind this?

 

[MNicolai]

Why? What is the reasoning behind this?

The only person who stands to lose in a fake gun fight is the person being shot at. When the person being shot at loads the gun, they can trust that the correct firearm is being used with the correct ammunition.

If I were an actor, I wouldn't let anyone point a gun at me and then fire it if I have not personally loaded the firearm myself.

Grabbing the wrong weapon or having the weapon switched at the last moment unbeknownst to the performers has historically resulted in tragic experiences. Ask the Royal Shakespeare Company. A few years ago when a prop knife was swapped before the show, someone put the wrong blade on the table or forgot to dull the blade's edge.

The performer, not knowing that they were walking out on stage with a different knife and having not verified its dullness first proceeded to slit his own throat on stage, except this night was different from most because he actually slit his own throat. A very fast ambulance ride later and the actor is lucky to have survived.

As a general rule of thumb, the person being shot, stabbed, hung, or otherwise maimed should always inspect what they're about to be attacked with before going out on stage.

 

[rochem]

The only person who stands to lose in a fake gun fight is the person being shot at. When the person being shot at loads the gun, they can trust that the correct firearm is being used with the correct ammunition.

If I were an actor, I wouldn't let anyone point a gun at me and then fire it if I have not personally loaded the firearm myself.

Grabbing the wrong weapon or having the weapon switched at the last moment unbeknownst to the performers has historically resulted in tragic experiences. Ask the Royal Shakespeare Company. A few years ago when a prop knife was swapped before the show, someone put the wrong blade on the table or forgot to dull the blade's edge.

The performer, not knowing that they were walking out on stage with a different knife and having not verified its dullness first proceeded to slit his own throat on stage, except this night was different from most because he actually slit his own throat. A very fast ambulance ride later and the actor is lucky to have survived.

As a general rule of thumb, the person being shot, stabbed, hung, or otherwise maimed should always inspect what they're about to be attacked with before going out on stage.

Exactly. While this has always been standard practice at the smaller theatres I've worked at, I've been surprised to see that it's fairly common on broadway shows and large tours as well. While the actor may not do the physical loading, they are always there as it occurs. I think it's very telling that actors many years into their run will jump into flying harnesses without even questioning who or what is on the other end of the line, but they will carefully inspect the prop weapons eight times a week, no matter how long they've been doing the show.

 

[MNicolai]

I think it's very telling that actors many years into their run will jump into flying harnesses without even questioning who or what is on the other end of the line, but they will carefully inspect the prop weapons eight times a week, no matter how long they've been doing the show.

A lot of performers wouldn't have any idea which qualities to look for in a safe flying rig. Many stagehands even would only have a vague idea.

It's one thing to inspect a harness, but the harness itself only comprises a fraction of the possible points of fault in a flying rig. As a performer, you have to trust the qualified professional(s) flying you, and you have to perform some amount of due diligence in asking questions like "Have you inspected the system today?" and "When I inspect the harness, what signs of wear am I looking for?" and "How will I know if I have the harness on properly?"

The problem being, many performers don't know which questions to ask, and enough stagehands don't either. When it comes to flying though, if you hire in a company like Foy or ZFX, I trust that they will tell any performers absolutely anything they may need to know about the rig and that even if the performers don't ask, they'll have inspected and maintained anything that may need to be inspected or maintained as part of their daily routine.

This is why the importance of hiring a professional is more than just the gear they provide -- it's also the expertise, experience, and safety protocols they bring with. Same reason anyone asking about prop guns is advised to consult a proper fightmaster on top of acquiring a safe prop weapon to use.

 

[Sony]

I have a few major issues here. First, any stage gun should never be able to fire real rounds at any time in its life. A welded barrel does not make it a prop gun.

Secondly, the person being fired at should do the loading. This is standard practice anywhere I have worked.


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While I would agree for professional theatre....this is a high school. Due to liability reasons (being under 18) the students are not allowed to prep or load the prop firearm.

Also yes, I said prop firearms MUST be bought AS prop firearms. Prop firearms are different from regular firearms, the barrel is welded shut and the chambers cannot accept real rounds, they wont even fit. The weapon cannot be modified to fire real rounds.

 

[avkid]

While I would agree for professional theatre....this is a high school. Due to liability reasons (being under 18) the students are not allowed to prep or load the prop firearm.

Are they present when the weapon is loaded?

 

[erichart]

Somebody mentioned Weapons of Choice above. While the quality of their guns are often in question by various prop masters across the country, their website does have a very good primer on the various types of stage guns out their and safe handling procedures:
http://www.weaponsofchoicetheatrical.com/prop firearms.htm

NYC does have some pretty tough gun laws; I had to get a license just to rent and transport prop guns. We also needed someone with a pyrotechnics license when we wanted to fire blanks. Check with your local laws, as they vary wildly, because some localities outside of NYC also require pyrotechnic licenses (a "black powder" license, as that is what blanks use) to fire blanks inside a theatre. That is in addition to whatever licenses you need to possess and transport the firearms themselves.

 

[Sony]

Are they present when the weapon is loaded?

Yes, and the people firing are trained to check over the firearm before walking out on stage to make sure everything is okay, while myself or my boss is standing beside them. We also keep our eyes on the firearm at all times while it is on stage and are ready to receive it immediately when it comes off stage. We don't screw around...I know of professional theatre's which are far less rigorous about firearm safety and some of them do it without anyone onsite with an active valid LTC, which is scary to me as Massachusetts doesn't even allow anyone to have a "hair spray" powered potato cannon without a firearms license. Yes, a potato cannon in Mass is considered a firearm and requires a firearms license to own and operate.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

This is always a good time to remind people of Brandon Lee.Brandon Lee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Sony]

This is always a good time to remind people of Brandon Lee.Brandon Lee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

x2

I mentioned him in my first post in this thread...people don't realize that anything lodged in the barrel will be propelled at the same speed as a real bullet. Thats why you ALWAYS use firearms manufactured specifically as a PROP firearm, since the barrel is blocked with a welded plug, any debris cannot travel down the barrel, also prop guns will not EVER accept real rounds and therefore another Brandon Lee cannot happen. People who use real firearms with "blanks" assuming that nothing will leave the barrel because they are "blanks" are possibly the most misinformed people on the planet....and dangerously so. Depending on the blank there could be wadding used to seal the blank, epoxy/plastic (if you're using blanks that aren't crimped shut which is common with rifle blanks) and larger grains of powder that take longer to burn can all be propelled downrange. All these things can injure and possibly kill someone if they are large enough and propelled fast enough.

 

[What Rigger?]

A lot of performers wouldn't have any idea which qualities to look for in a safe flying rig. Many stagehands even would only have a vague idea.

It's one thing to inspect a harness, but the harness itself only comprises a fraction of the possible points of fault in a flying rig. As a performer, you have to trust the qualified professional(s) flying you, and you have to perform some amount of due diligence in asking questions like "Have you inspected the system today?" and "When I inspect the harness, what signs of wear am I looking for?" and "How will I know if I have the harness on properly?"

The problem being, many performers don't know which questions to ask, and enough stagehands don't either. When it comes to flying though, if you hire in a company like Foy or ZFX, I trust that they will tell any performers absolutely anything they may need to know about the rig and that even if the performers don't ask, they'll have inspected and maintained anything that may need to be inspected or maintained as part of their daily routine.

This is why the importance of hiring a professional is more than just the gear they provide -- it's also the expertise, experience, and safety protocols they bring with. Same reason anyone asking about prop guns is advised to consult a proper fightmaster on top of acquiring a safe prop weapon to use.

I'll second everything above, and that's all based on 10 years of flying people, stunt rigging, and dealing with firearms onstage almost daily.

 

[damjamkato]

I'm in the same situation, high school production of West Side Story where the director wants to use a starter pistol firing .22 short crimped blanks (this model) for the gunshot at the end. We've used this firearm before, but only for the noise, fired in the wings, in a safe direction. We follow every safety procedure about handling the firearm outlined in previous posts, so I don't need reiterations of that. Basically, the scene is blocked so that Chino enters upstage center, aims at Tony who is downstage center, and fires. As our space is in a 3/4 thrust, I see a few potential issues with this. First, the gun is pointed directly at the actor playing Tony. Second, this means the gun is pointed directly at the audience. Just to be clear, we've yet to actually run this with actual blanks. Am I right in feeling a bit uneasy about this situation, or just overreacting a litte? As the sound designer, this isn't really my jurisdiction for the show, but I feel obligated to make sure that any possible accidents are avoided. I'm thinking of suggesting firing the gun (in a safe direction) just offstage behind the actor playing Chino, and giving the actor a prop gun. Thoughts? Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Also, just to satisfy my own curiosity, what is the difference between a starter pistol and a prop gun designed to fire blanks? Other than the physical appearances, of course.