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Changes in Permacel gaffers tape

Discussion in 'News' started by goodguy, Apr 25, 2007.

  1. goodguy

    goodguy Member

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  2. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Fine with me, deletes some confusion in the industry as to who makes what for whome and which is which. Now if only the various websites could get in sink and user friendly. Not asking for a McMaster Carr website style, but on the other hand it's impossible at times to get some types of tape by way of part number and details about it. Try getting a part number to a 6" neon yellow/black stripe non-cable path but full adhesive back gaffers tape. No writing on the tape, just stripes. One would think that it would be easy to pull up and order such a thing. Don't care who's website, there needs to be a listing of what's available. This much less I have a direct account with Shurtape, the above product is from Pro Gaff/Permacel. Shurtape makes that tape but as of a few months ago couldn't get it for me. I had to Rosebrand it as no other tape distributers that sell these product lines could get it either. That about upped the price also.



    I don't like synthetic adhesive anyway, I prefer the Shurtape PC-628 for it's better adhesive qualities to any of the Pro Gaff/Permacel brands of synthetic glue. Granted to each his or her own on adhesive qualities and gummy concepts of natural verses synthetic. There is a debate for sure on this and it's much a personal choice.

    Believe SpecTape also is labeled under the ShurTape label now given it was the same PC-628 just different name brand and a ST-628 instead of PC-628 part number much similar to that of a similar Permacel verses Pro Gaff tape part number in it being the same tape different brand name. Less confusion still once it all becomes one brand. This in addition to the concept of ProGaff tape was Permacel tape. Had instances where production managers wouldn't take one or the other because it was not the same... Way too many name brands on the market. Smacking upside the head type of offense on those who say "no we won't accept this type of tape," it's not the same thing - this especially when confused about pro verses normal gaff tape types in name brand. Really is differences in gaffers tape, unfortunately the core of the tape that's now all marked with Spectape or was that ShurTape, won't tell you which type it is any better than Pro Gaff would tell you if it was the Pro or the general grade. The core of the tape roll needs not the name brand but instead name brand and type such as the part number would tell you.

    So the inner core of these tapes is now the same. That's good and bad I suppose. I would hope that the core of these tapes have the tape type stamped on them so one can easily tell the difference between one brand and style from another. I would hate to get a Permacel P-665 common grade, or P-672 premium grade mixed in with my PC-628. That would be a bad thing now that they all have the same core brand name. Wonder how much I already have mixed in. Shurtape has already changed the font/text type in labeling the cores of their tape in addition to this. Seemingly there is more than one Shurtape inner core to the tape labeling out there right now. Could mean something or not mean anything in tape type.

    A shame in a way this news of the different name brands. Used to be way back when our shows would go out with stacks of gaff tape and come back with none. With time, I suppose the various IA or local non=IA crews got tired of sweeping up and throwing out the open rolls that are not worth sending back to those who bought the rolls or loading their car trunks with it as it seemed in constantly loosing rools of tape. This or our guys have their eyes open to this constant loss of tape - often in a bad way of them grabbing up anything that's left behind instead of just our open rolls. I of the last year or so not only get at least some of what's sent out in Gaffers tape back but also frequently get other brands of it back. See tape roll floating about, see empty box, toss tape in it. Concept of our guys out for tape that don't belong to the venue in seeing it, ensuring that we get our tape back, or the stage hands local seeing a roll of gaff tape floating about and tossing it into the nearest road box. What ever the reason, it's not as bad any longer by way of getting my tape back, this much less other peoples tape back which is not as good but at least not costing us money. Wouldn't believe how many rolls of especially white gaffers tape from other brands I get back per year. I didn't buy them, much less other than for non-tour type uses have no use for it. Mostly I give away the off brands as I have no use for them and they quickly pile up. I constantly have stacks of other than Shurtape gaffers tape piling up.


    Anyway, the various gaff tape website/manufacturers & brand names I'm aware of follows:

    Intertape Polymer Group www.intertapepolymer.com
    Permacel www.permacel.com
    Pro Tapes and Specialties www.protapes.com
    Manuli / Nashua / Polyken / Raychem / National / Patco - Tyco Adhesives Www.tycoadhesives.com
    SCAPA Inc. Www.scapana.com
    Shufford Mills - Shure tape www.shurtape.com
    Spectape http://www.spectape.com/
    3M http://www.3m.com/
    United Tape co. http://www.unitedtape.com/Home.html

    This list is manufacturers or primary name brands. There are many distributers that sell the above, and or theatrical supply companies that buy someone else's tape and put their name on it also. Believe I have even kicked around some PRG tape at times. Also of the above list, many manufacturers of gaffers tape have stopped making it in the past couple of years.


    Remember when shopping for gaffers tape there is two primary concerns to concept - this beyond a matt finish duct tape many other companies will attempt to sell as gaffers tape. First is what type of adhesive is used - natural or synthetic. Second is thickness of the tape. Both are key factors, this in addition to fake Gaff tape that's really just duct tape that many many companies and distributers attempt to sell.


    I'll post comments on price of tape verses wasting tape in the punching bag area.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2007
  3. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    I have to admit I'm a bit of an amateur when it comes to my gaff shopping skills... I go to my local theater supply store and grab a roll of Permacel off the shelf and buy it. (It's a little embarrassing considering my user name).

    Anyway, my question is what is the difference between the regular and pro grades?
     
  4. Andy_Leviss

    Andy_Leviss Active Member Premium Member

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    The big difference I know of is thickness of the actual tape, Pro being much heavier. Personally, I live and die by ProGaff, and try to avoid any type of PermaCel (or ShurTape, now) if at all possible. I find that Permacel tends to be much more prone to accidentally tearing lengthwise when tearing it off the roll for some reason. Quite annoying when you're tearing lots of short strips off to tag boxes, mic stands, connectors, etc. and you have to keep stopping because you've suddenly got a 1" strip coming off your roll instead of the full 2"!

    --A
     
  5. CURLS

    CURLS Member

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    Yea, but then again having a roll layin around the shop that is two widths is nice for not using up a bunch of it. Having two strips of different sizes can save money and look neater sometimes. Ok, now im just bein a smartass, lol just ignore me.
     
  6. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Differences: Tape thickness and adhesive qualities, this plus type of adhesive used. There are preferences in the industry, mine are for one brand, for others it's for other brands and types. 90% Of those that want a specific brand and type have this for specific reasons such as rolling up or peeling up and not sticking. It's a long way in concept beyond the reason it's gaffers tape in taping lighting fixures to a ceiling. Good luck these days with any of them, much less in trusting they will hold. Still it's also confusing in that a say Permacel P-672 is the exact same as a Pro Gaff Pro Grade - different name. A P-66f or normal Pro Gaff is also the exact same thing. This amongst other brands that will fit somewhere near the specs of the above and or be different all together.

    Unfortunately at times someone wants a specific product and won't accept another better or exact same product this by way of not knowing it's the same or in trusting to what they trust - fair enough to some extent given a lack of R&D in play testing or studying what's not easy to study - gaff tape cross brand type cross reference. Believe a few years ago I did a post that went into specific hundreds of an inch and glue type details on gaffers tape amongst all brands I was aware of at the time. It's an interesting science tape. On a day to day basis is you don't use it much, na, gaff is gaff... once you use it daily and get off brands into your mix of what you are used to, you can detect a difference.

    Once in a related way had a guy that ran our cable department. The main thing he did for a living was supervising what cable was needed for a show was pulled and what was pulled in needing looming into a bundle was taped together as if one cable. He could within a second rate an electrical tape by way of how easily it pulled off the roll, and how many wraps it made before the roll was used up. This with a specified tension and adhesive quality. He bundled cables together for a living. It would be similar for a person that gets paid to tape cables to a dirty stage floor and they already know how many layers wide it will be needed to stick the cable flat to the floor. Lesser tape won't stick and you need more surface area. This all amongst the gummyness factor or what's going to roll when walked over or even peel up. In my lamp aisle I have a bunch of gaff tape stuck to the floor. It's the labels to some hard foam incandescent lamp cartons that gaff tape labels were stuck to. Used a lesser grade of gaff tape for the - it's just a label and over time the labels follow gravity in not sticking so well. As they fall I don't always pick them up and they stick better to the floor than the foam they are falling from. Sticking to the floor also a degree of doing so type of thing in that I'm normally too busy to just peel them up off the floor. No doubt it would not be difficult just take an extra moment given it's a failed label.

    Big differences in types of gaff tape, with time and experience it's something that will become important. For now, if it all just seems similar and what's the difference, don't worry about it and be glad it's one less issue to deal with at this point in a busy production schedule. Gaff tape can be just gaff tape and be thankful it is - that's when it's nice.

    What you mean that if you need a 1" gaff tape, you don't use up a full roll of 2" by way of ripping 1" off the roll continualy until the point there is 40 yards or more of 1" pulled off, 40 yards of 1" left on the roll and something nobody will touch until next time they need other than a 1" tape where by they grab a fresh roll? This also given that if you rip 1" off a roll it kind of strays a bit in width the more you pull off. Also given that it's impossible to pull 1" off one side of the roll, than 1" off the other side of the roll as you go...

    A few years ago, I got a bunch of cases of 1" gaff tape by mistake by way of a company that did themselves under by way of being bare bones in price. Made lots of mistakes similar to this in shipping the wrong stuff, much less didn't make enough profit to look after themselves in hiring quality staff. So this past week I finally had someone = one of like 20 crew chiefs looking for some 1" gaff tape - great for marking off stairs etc. he tells me. I was estatic in that the one roll he was looking for went one roll closer towards the like three cases of 48 I'm sitting on. Company went out of business before they could correct their mistake.

    Amazing, I put the 1" stuff out on the floor for general usage but still constantly see rolls of 2" that people have taken 1" off of for most of the entire roll. Depressing in a way also, this in a lead a horse to water type of thing, or this is my career and for others it's a job.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2007
  7. Kelite

    Kelite Apollo Staff Premium Member

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    < I prefer the Shurtape PC-628 for it's better adhesive qualities to any of the Pro Gaff/Permacel brands of synthetic glue. Granted to each his or her own on adhesive qualities and gummy concepts of natural verses synthetic. >

    You may want to ding your Shurtape rep about the adhesive used on each of these products. Shurtape entered the industry with a lower priced product because they purchased reclaimed natural rubber and mixed elastisomers to regain it's tackiness. The Permacel Brand gaffer (distributed by Pro Tapes) has been known to be virgin calendered rubber with NO re-activating agents.

    I was curious if Shurtape would eventually retire the Permacel name when they bought them out several years ago. It surprised me as much as K-mart buying Sears. (Seemed as it should have been the other way around in both cases.)
     
  8. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    So onto the specification level, what's the Apollo and in filling in the blanks, other brands of gaff tape specified at in a cross reference to below type comparison question?

    Model #, Material, Adhesive type, Thickness, Tensile Strength, oz/sq. inch adhesion to Stainless Steel, Operating temperature.

    Bringing up an old discussion on Gaff Tape from last year- why it becomes gummy. The details on various types and brands might be of use here under study and comparison.


    First an important note about Gaffers Tape -
    To quote from Surtape website on P-665 tape: “Tape should be stored in its original packaging in a cool, dry area away from direct sunlight and should be used within 12 months of date of shipment. (This includes how long it’s been on the shelf at your supplier.) Surfaces to which tape is applied should be clean, dry and free of grease, oil and other contaminants.”
    3M website notes storage from 60°F to 80°F and 40 to 60% RH in original carton. Also use is best when one year after manufacture. Scapa notes: free from oil & contaminants such as powder, dust or release agents. “Adhesive performance should be carefully checked when used on substrates containing plasticizers.” “Shelf life is one year from date of shipment when stored in a cool dry place below 76°F. Rolls should be stored on end.”




    Tape Notes:
    The Permacel website does not list the above part numbers on their website but are famous for reselling it. The Pro Tapes (Pro Gaff) lists Permacel as made by Shurtape. Shufford Mills(Spec Tape) also resales Shurtape with their name company name on it. Domestically, there is probably only one Gaffers tape supplier. There is different brands stamped on the tape and different grades of it otherwise as the real differences. Shurtape for instance even has Permacel tape in the photo for their P-628 tape. Once in a while you will see a P-665 tape without even a brand name inside it’s roll, most often it’s from Shurtape and is the same as Permacel and Pro Gaff.

    United Tape and Intertape are the same brand of tape as is Nashua and Polyken the same brand. Normally you should see Polyken but I have also seen Nashua gaffers tape. I don’t remember who makes Rosco brand Gaffers tape but think I remember it being one of the above as another example. Many companies these days resale other tape brands of tape just with their name interchangeable on the inner roll thus my at times seeing a pre-printed inner roll..

    My results upon study of information given. First that thickness changes and or is rounded off dependant upon who advertises it or what part of even their website you look at. This would tend to confirm that even if Pro Gaff is listed in a different place than P-665 on the Pro Tape website, it is the same tape in having no other details about it in difference.

    Overall synopsis:
    There is two main types of gaffers tape - Synthetic and rubber based adhesion. Beyond this my hypothisis would be that rubber based tapes stick better to dirty surfaces better. All get gummy with time, heat or chemicals applied to them, rubber instead of synthetic might become more gummy with chemicals. The premium grades or those better defined by adhesive pound per square inch listed details tend to stick better than others but you also often get what you pay for. In addition to this, there seems to be at times a better adhesion difference between what would be clean steel as in stainless non-oil coated steel adhesion differences to some tapes. This to a difference to general adhesive properties to other materials.



    Normal Grade Synthetic Rubber Gaff Tapes:
    Pro Gaff: Vinyl Coated Cotton Cloth; Synthetic Rubber Resin Adhesive; 12mil (11.5mil) thickness; 48#/Inch tensile Strength; 60oz/square inch adhesion to stainless steel; Operating temperature of 45° to 200°F.
    Permacel P-665: Vinyl Coated Cotton Cloth; Synthetic Rubber Resin Adhesive; 12mil (11.5mil) thickness; 48#/Inch tensile Strength; 60oz/square inch adhesion to stainless steel; Operating temperature of 45° to 200°F.
    Shurtape P-665: Vinyl Coated Cotton Cloth; Synthetic Rubber Resin Adhesive; 12mil (11.5mil) thickness; 48#/Inch tensile Strength; 60oz/square inch adhesion to stainless steel; Operating temperature of 45° to 200°F.
    Spectape ST-665: Vinyl Coated Cotton Cloth; Synthetic Rubber Resin Adhesive; 12mil (11.5mil) thickness; 48#/Inch tensile Strength; 60oz/square inch adhesion to stainless steel; Operating temperature of 45° to 200°F.

    Industrial/Professional Grade Synthetic Rubber Gaff Tapes:
    Professional Grade Permicel P-672: Vinyl Coated Cotton Cloth; Synthetic Rubber Resin Adhesive; 12mil (11.5mil) thickness; 48#/Inch tensile Strength; 80oz/square inch adhesion to stainless steel; Operating temperature not listed °F.
    Industrial Grade Shurtape P-672: Vinyl Coated Cotton Cloth; Synthetic Rubber Resin Adhesive; 11.5mil thickness; 48#/Inch tensile Strength; 80oz/square inch adhesion to stainless steel; Operating temperature not listed °F.
    Spec Grade Shurtape P-691NSY: Vinyl Coated Cotton Cloth; (Portsmouth Naval Shipyard Spec) Synthetic Rubber Adhesive; 14mil thickness; 69#/Inch tensile Strength; 60oz/Square Inch adhesion to stainless steel; Operating temperature not listed °F. (This would seem to be the premium premium grade of gaffers tape.)

    Professional Grade Rubber Adhesive Gaff Tapes:
    Industrial Grade Shurtape PC-628: Vinyl Coated Cotton Cloth; Rubber Resin Adhesive; 12mil thickness; 46#/Inch Tensile Strength; 50oz/Inch adhesion to Stainless Steel; Operating Temperature 50° to 200°F
    Spectape ST-628: Industrial Grade Shurtape PC-628: Vinyl Coated Cotton Cloth; Rubber Resin Adhesive; 12mil thickness; 46#/Inch Tensile Strength; 50oz/Inch adhesion to Stainless Steel; Operating Temperature 50° to 200°F
    3M #6910; Vinyl Coated Cotton Cloth; Rubber Resin Adhesive; 12mil thickness; 45#/Inch Tensile Strength; 45oz/Inch adhesion to Stainless Steel; Operating Temperature to 200°F for one hour.
    Polyken #510: Vinyl Coated Cotton Cloth; Rubber Resin Adhesive; 11.5mil thickness; 45#/Inch Tensile Strength; 50oz/Inch adhesion to Stainless Steel; Operating Temperature to 200°F
    Polyken #512 High Adhesion: Vinyl Coated Cotton Cloth; Rubber Resin Adhesive; 12mil thickness; 40#/Inch Tensile Strength; 100oz/Inch adhesion to Stainless Steel; Operating Temperature to 200°FPolyken #525 Premium: Vinyl Coated Cotton Cloth; Rubber Resin Adhesive; 11mil thickness; 55#/Inch Tensile Strength; 35oz/Inch adhesion to Stainless Steel; Operating Temperature to 200°F
    Scapa #425: Vinyl Coated Cotton Cloth; Rubber Resin Adhesive; 10mil thickness; 35#/Inch Tensile Strength; 60oz/Inch adhesion to Stainless Steel; Operating Temperature 65°F minimum.
     
  9. Kelite

    Kelite Apollo Staff Premium Member

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    The Apollo Gaffer tape is manufactured by Scapa, with specs as follows;

    Product Type: Single Coated Tape
    Adhesive Type: Rubber
    Backing Type: Vinyl Coated Cloth
    Thickness: 12 mils
    Tensile Strength: 44 lb/inch
    Adhesion: 50 oz/inch
    Liner: None
    Function(s): Bundling, Color Coding, Gaffers Tape, Packaging, Wrapping


    We have private labeled several Polyken/Tyco tapes in past years, but have found the natural rubber adhesive used with the Scapa 225 as the better product with a longer shelf life and less residue.

    There are several manufacturers of cotton cloth tapes, and yes- several have been purchased by other companies. Still, there is a wide range of price and quality available. Most companies selling gaffer tape purchase through a distributor or converter, while we work directly with Scapa. :)
     

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