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Colortran ZoomMini 25/50 comparison to an S4

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by church, Feb 19, 2008.

  1. church

    church Active Member

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    Tonight we got a surprise we didn't expect. We tried a brand new out of the box Colortran mini zoom side by side with a S4 (750W fixture) fixed degree. we bench focused both fixtures, mounted them on the same stand using a T bar pointed at a white painted wall in a brightly lit workshop and fed simultaneously from one power cord with a twofer attached to the fixture pigtails.

    The S4 was fitted with a HPL 575 lamp and the Colortran with the FMR lamp below:
    Wattage 600
    Lumens 12500
    Base GY9.5
    Shape T5
    Overall Length (mm) 88
    Life Hours 2000
    Kelvin 3000
    CRI 100
    Color CLEAR
    Filament CC-8

    The zoom was adjusted to give the same diameter light pool as the fixed focus S4 - the surprise both pools of light were: even, sharp edged and equally bright. We double checked the S4 no change. Even more puzzling was the reflector in the zoom was nothing fancy. We have not seen this lamp before and haven't seen it discussed but has anyone else used it? The specification doesn't suggest it should be anything overly special and the extra 25W over the HPL doesn't account for performance. The S4 is less than 6 months old and has spent almost all its life in a road case, is clean and in new condition. We tried another S4 and got similar results. we measured the supply voltage and got 121V at the twofer.

    Maybe we got lucky with Colortran and the lamp, maybe some of these lamps and fixtures are better than we realise. Certainly ship has claimed that a number of newer fixture types are capable of excellant performance with the newer lamps. This comparison while not definitive was done with the intent of seeing how much better the S4 was in comparison to the colortran - we surprised ourselves here. We only use GLC and GLA in Strand, colortran 5/50 and CCT fixtures and properly bench focussed and in the case of the 5/50s with minor optic mods that anyone can do they perform well. Again we have tried FELs side by side with the GLCs in all these fixtures and the GLCs produce more and better light on the stage.

    This was just our experince tonight has anyone else tried this?
     
  2. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    I don't see anywhere in your post where you state the beam angle of the SourceFour™. I also cannot believe the S4 had a 750W lamp. I used the Berkey Colortran ZoomMini extensively in the mid-late 1980s, and preferred it to the "full-size" BC Zoom Ellipse. This was with an AV company who felt that since Navitar 6"-9" with or without Barlows worked for E-IIIs, they should buy zooms for ERSs also. I was hired shortly after they purchased the Colortran gear, or things may have been different.

    You're speaking of the Colortran ZoomMini 25/50, so let's see what the manufacturers' spec. sheets say, in comparison to an HPL750/115v ETC 426, 436, and 450. In this thread, Colortran Photometrics, I posted information from the original Berkey Colortran cut sheets.

    Below is the Excel PDF. Every S4 should have kicked the little guy's butt; that doesn't mean the ZoomMini is a bad fixture. Quite a different beast than the Mini Ellipse 20/30/40, with screwbase 500W lamp.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 20, 2008
  3. tomed101

    tomed101 Active Member

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    He said it was fitted with a 575W lamp:
     
  4. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Sorry, my bad. The second sentence of the OP's post reads "...side by side with a [sic] S4 (750W fixture) fixed degree." So that's where I got 750W. But I based my calculations on the HPL575/115.
     
  5. church

    church Active Member

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    Derek is correct the light output of the Mini Ellipse units is terrible but these are totally different fixtures to the Mini Zoom.

    The S4 was and is fitted with the HPL 575 lamp but the S4 fixture is the 750W rated version - marked on the lamp housing.

    We also have four of the Colortran Mini Ellipse (and two of the Times Square version) instruments that use the EVR lamp and the lenses can be re positioned in the lens tube to give 30 degree, 40 degree or 50 degree beam widths. The EVR lamp uses the mini candelabra base. The Mini Ellipse instruments are totally different instruments to the Mini Zoom, the Mini Ellipse is bent steel and aluminium sheet the Mini Zoom has alloy castings for the lamp house, lens barrel and lamp holder. The mini zoom allows continuos adjustment of the lenses to give any beam width between 25 and 50 degrees. The Lens barrel hinges open along its axis to allow access to the lenses for cleaning ala S4 Zoom and their is even a light control door on the gobo slot to creduce light spill.

    We have also tried the Mini Zoom against the Mini Ellipse and the Times Square version of the same fixture and there is no comparison. The Mini Ellipse light output appears less than half the light output of the Mini Zoom - difficult to be certain without a light meter. I know it has been said that the EVR lamp is very poor and this is certainly confirmed by side by side testing. We are considering retrofitting one of the Mini Ellipse units with the GX9.5 lampholder and the FMR lamp to see if this improves these fixtures - some adjustment for filament position will be required. If this works we will change them all. The only item shared by the Mini Zoom and the Mini Ellipse is the use of the word "Mini" in the names.

    Of course we then have to get them field inspected by the local Entela test people - a normal procedure here in Canada because Colortran (same as many others) fixtures do not always have Canadian approvals.
     
  6. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    FMR G.E. #30475 CL, Quartz Long Life (HRG) 600 w T-5 cc-8 LCL 2" GX 9.5 (Universal Burn)(Axial 16x6mm Filmt.) 3,050̊K 12,600 Lum 2,000hr


    Hmm, are you sure you were using a FMR lamp? Seems unusual to use that lamp base type of lamp in a fixture I would expect with a fixture of different type of lamp base I think. Sure it was not a FLK or something else?

    I note a lot of listings on the lamp using a GX, GY and GZ lamp base dependant upon the brand and what they call their lamp base.

    This is what I can gather:
    G9.5 = Medium 2-Pin (w. Heat Sink for HPL)3/8" o.c. bet. Pins / 9.53mm oc. Bet. Pins 15/16" at top of Skirt and 24mm wide at horz. width Pin Dia is 3.17mm at 11.4mm long. (LCL at Bot of Ceramic/Alum Base - Where Pins Come Out)
    GX9.5 = Skirted Medium Prefocus 2-Pin Pin dia is 3.2mm x 8.4mm Long, 9.5mm oc. (LCL at Bot of Ceramic Base - Where Pins Come Out) Note: Porc. Alignment/Spacer Pegs coming out of Base at Bot. This 9.5 Base is Larger Rectangle than GY base, with Center Alignment Slot Pn Dia is 3.17mm DIN #49638, IEC #7004-70A
    GY9.5 = Skirted 2-Pin Medium Prefocus Pin Dia is 3.2mm & 2.4mm, at 9.53mm oc. Pin Length is 8.6mm, Skirt Width is 30mm. (Higher Wattage) (Base Makes Cross Shape) (LCL at Bot of Ceramic Base - Where Pins Come Out) (Smaller Shape than GX 9.5) IEC #7004-70B, AnSI #C81.61-1990sheet 1-369-1.
    GZ 9.5 = Pins are two different Dia. 3.2 & 2.3mm Dia. 8.6mm Long Porc. is 24mm Wide. 2-Pin Prefocus (LCL at Bot of Ceramic Base - Where Pins Come Out)

    Your lamp should not fit in the above fixture and is not rated for it.

    Hmm, the Leviton website does not give much in deail, I'll have to take it for granted that this is the lamp specified for the fixture. Possible but not normal.

    Your specs are a bit less than mine for color temp. and luminous output as the GE norm/standard. Given even if you are using a 750w long life lamp at 120v, you should have a bit more more output than that of a FMR lamp given the same voltage rating. Filament size optically is also on the FMR much less efficient, this in addition to in general zoom fixtures being less efficient in use of light.

    Have to think that there is more here by way of lamp or what the new fixture is compared to in detail. Before that, can't really say why the newer fixture would "appear" to be more bright than the other. On the other hand if confirmed, that would be really bad news to ETC.

    Even bench focus up by about 4.3mm and you can now install a 1.2Kw Ushio #1001787 JCS 120v-1200w C lamp in it. Puts the output of a FEL to shame and no doubt your follow spot also. This along with adjusting down some to fit the VL-5 Phillips #71-2529 lamp that I don't have specs on but should also be brite at 1.2Kw.

    Lots of other lamps available but it all assumes Colortran/NSI/Leviton is now using a very much less used lamp base style as opposed to a more normal TP-22 style G-9.5 base. If incorrect in lamp type, than say a question more of long life verses high output and specific to many types and brands in what they specifically have.
     
  7. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    oops, I also mistaked 750w for 575w in not reading as well.

    Now given 575w HPL lamp, depends upon voltage and long life verses high output in how it would compare to the specified Colortran lamp I'm confused about. Yep, easily - decent lamp than in comparision for output at least for a long life 120v long life lamp, not as much for such things as gobo projection or flat field and other details given the filament.
     
  8. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    FMR 600W is the proper lamp for the Zoom Mini. The original manufacturer's cut sheets, dated 03/85, state: "A revolutionary new 600 watt lamp increases light output by nearly 50% over conventional 500 watt screw-based systems. A unique lamp house design allows constant orientation of the filament support bridge, which translates into a more compact source--meaning greater efficiency and higher light output." I recall thinking at the time: "Colortran has gone from a candelabra screwbase to a med. bipin with one pin larger than the other." Talk about one extreme to another!
     
  9. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Lots of Euro lamps use the odd pin config. Helps with DC circuits and perhaps 240v circuits plus low voltage. More efficient... thanks for the info, not so sure beyond it confirmed it is a off type lamp used. What is stated is no more better than any other literature about more efficient lamps in often not hart to beat a earlier style but not relating to other similar sources.

    Given the filament, less efficient given a gobo or hard edge I would think. More efficient than a HPL 575, depends on the HPL 575 and the condition of the fixture I would suppose in being possible.

    On the other hand in what is not stated, not very common a GLA or HPL lamp has an expected lamp life of 2,000 hours these days. Some do but all at 115v. On the other hand, if not 120v for the HPL lamp, I would be surprised at your observations in not seeing the 115v HPL lamps as brighter given the higher color temp.

    Ah' a large field in lamps and the Colortran it would now seem adds to it. I'm curious about their fixtures now given this info. Kind of cool to have a third style of Leko lamp used domestically. On the other hand, unless you can adjust the seat height of the lamp like 1CM each way (about 3/8"), that 600w lamp is about all that will fit into the fixture for maximum wattage and that given a 750w world for normal Lekos and even a 1Kw world for zooms makes this fixture even if decent lamp, limited.
     
  10. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Ship, upon it's introduction in 1985, the Colortran Zoom Mini came in three flavors, all zooms: 15/30, 25/50. and 40/65. It was designed to replace the innovative, but problematic MiniEllipse 20/30/40, and to compete with 3.5" ERS for shorter throw applications: studio theatres and the like. I especially liked the fact that the FMR 600W lamp didn't "waste" any dimmer capacity. I suppose one could say the fixture was not a success, as no one copied it. Socket type is listed as TP-27. In the late 1980s, Colortran began having financial issues and was purchased by LEE, and I suspect the introduction of the ETC SourceFour™ in 1992 dealt the final blow to this fixture.
     

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