PAR Upgrade

[hemismith]

Note: prices updated.

I'm still on my quest to get some additional lights without spending too much; unfortunately I can't go over about $150 (per fixture). I don't really need any beam shaping, we just need to see people. I usually have a throw of about 40 ft so need a narrow beam, although the option for shorter throws would be useful. What of the following would you choose? (Prices include bulbs and connectors and approximate shipping.)

- PAR64 500W, 474 lux, $70 new (cheap ADJ) including both MFL and NSP bulbs.
- Altman 65Q with 500W BTL lamp, 401 lux, $165 new, but there are some well-used ones for $76.
- ETC Source Four Par EA with 575W HPL lamp, 1269 lux, $177 used. Multiple lens option.

I had never considered Fresnels before. They don't actually provide as much light, but it would be better quality and has the very desirable zoom capability.

The S4 is much brighter, and a little lighter weight than the 65Q, which is desirable since they will be on stands. I'm curious how much better controlled they would be with a snoot (although they wouldn't be as balanced).

 

[AudJ]

Is your “$150” above accurate? Nothing you list is in that range

 

[JD]

Yea, little confused but the $150, but good old PARs still give the biggest bang for the buck on light delivered. Especially true if you do not need beam shaping. Fresnels are more of a short throw device where you need a real even beam. If you're just trying to throw light on the stage to see people then PAR it be!

 

[hemismith]

Sorry! I meant $150 per fixture. But I need 4 fixtures and that was the price I quoted. Left out one major detail. I'll update my original post.

Yeah, I had always thought Fresnels were just for short throws, but with a beam of 9 degrees they could work, although they would be better with the HPL lamp.

Initially I was thinking that it would be worth getting one of these other options, but if they aren't going to do that much more then I guess it would be better to just save my money and get more PARs until I can afford something that would be a more significant upgrade.

Thanks!

 

[josh88]

S4 pars are $150 used on usedlighting, this seems to fit exactly what you're asking for. Just go get them
https://www.usedlighting.com/35/etc-source-four-par-ea

 

[techieman33]

You can also watch ebay and pick up used s4 pars pretty cheap in ones and twos.

 

[Les]

You can also watch ebay and pick up used s4 pars pretty cheap in ones and twos.

I've been seeing S4 pars for $50 each on eBay. Granted they're reasonably well-worn and may need a new socket. People are also unloading Altman Par 64's real cheap. I wouldn't pay more than $25 for a used one. I certainly wouldn't buy a new par can this day and age.

 

[JohnD]

Speaking of 4Wall/ Usedlighting.com They also have a package of 4 S4 Pars with clamps and 2p & G plugs with safety cable and new lamp (your choice) for $ 619. There is also a brokered listing for S4 pars (the newer 750 watt version) with clamp and 2p & g plug for $ 66. each. I would check if that price included full lens sets though. You might also want to check if your local lamp supplier has Par64's in stock, from another thread it seems the supply might be somewhat sketchy.

 

[JimOC_1]

How are our stands? 50lb bases, 1.5 pipe, and sandbags? If not maybe monoprice 18x18's frequently on sale for $160.
I had 65Q's out front, but gladly changed them out as $25-$40 360Q's showed up on craigslist, eBay, and gear source. (I install GLA 575's)

 

[hemismith]

Thanks everyone. I saw the ones on 4Wall, that's where I was getting my prices from. But I got some things mixed up. I guess it's worth looking into the cheaper ones, they are listed as "very good" condition. And I hadn't looked on ebay, there are indeed quite a few cheap ones. Interesting that people are selling individual units.

I am more comfortable buying from 4Wall stock, but it is a premium. But I would like something complete and in decent shape. Last year I bought some used Altman Pars from my local rental shop, but they were pretty beat up (they were used outdoors) and I had to replace the plugs and redo some wiring and get new bulbs, and by that time it was hardly worth it.

A couple things that complicate this. I am using amateur equipment so I can only handle 5 amps and need Edison/NEMA connectors. So I'll have to replace the connectors and get new bulbs on most used things. I assume the 750W ones can use the 575W bulbs. And then there's shipping. I wish I would have looked into this sooner; I was near Las Vegas last weekend and could have gone to 4Wall.

I'm second guessing myself now for a few other reasons. One, I mount them on cheap aluminum lighting stands. Usually I mount them on the ground and then raise the stand, which makes it a lot faster/easier. If they're too heavy that would be difficult. And because of the aluminum stands I don't use clamps, I bolt them directly, which is tricky to do in the air. But maybe o-clamps would work better. And the S4 pars are a lot lighter than a regular S4.

Another issue is the lenses on the S4 pars are a real pain to change. But I hear there's a tool that makes it easier.

Also, I know the S4 pars produce a much better quality light pool, but the control is no better than a cheap par, and when I first started looking I was really hoping for something with the field angle closer to the beam angle. But a snoot might help quite a bit. I tried some with my conventional pars but they made them difficult to balance. But it probably wouldn't affect the S4 pars as much.

It's true that no one stocks conventional pars anymore. But there aren't any replacements that can produce that amount of light anywhere near the cost.

 

[derekleffew]

... But I hear there's a tool that makes it easier. ...

See this and previous posts from the same thread:

Looks like the price is back to $4.95 + $1.75 shipping, from two different eBay vendors:
Etc Source Four Par Lens Removal Tool S4 Opti Par Lens Removal Tool | eBay
Etc Source Four Par Lens Removal Tool S4 | eBay

 

[hemismith]

How are our stands? 50lb bases, 1.5 pipe, and sandbags? If not maybe monoprice 18x18's frequently on sale for $160.
I had 65Q's out front, but gladly changed them out as $25-$40 360Q's showed up on craigslist, eBay, and gear source. (I install GLA 575's)

No, just cheap tripod stands, so that is a concern. I was initially really hoping to get LEDs because of power requirements and weight, and it seems LEDs have a more controlled beam. I saw those monoprice ones last night, but their beam angle is 45 degrees, much too wide. There are very few LEDs with narrow beams and enough output, none in my price range that I've found.

 

[hemismith]

See this and previous posts from the same thread:

Awesome, thank you.

 

[josh88]

I've never found lenses hard to change. I know some people complain but its really not that bad and the best other option I've found is a church key (paint opener) super easy. Yes the 750 s4 pars can use any lower HPL. As far as weight, they really aren't too heavy, the spec sheet says fixture weight is 7.5 + 2 for a c clamp.

 

[JimOC_1]

Don't give up on trees. If you find cheap lights, they may be in your budget.

Two trees for the side/back of the house (for hanging 4 ellipsoidals each)
$150/base Two of: Altman Cast Iron Base - 50lbs"
$ 30/pipe Three of: 1-1/2 in. x 10 ft. Black Steel Sch. 40 Pipe (Home depot)
One is cut into two 4” sections for the “T”
$ 30/each Two of: Cheeseboro Clamp, Rigid
$ ?/each Four sand bags, two per tree. I use bags of gravel from a hardware, wrapped in 3mil black trash bags, held together by lots of black tape.

 

[hemismith]

Don't give up on trees. If you find cheap lights, they may be in your budget.

Two trees for the side/back of the house (for hanging 4 ellipsoidals each)
$150/base Two of: Altman Cast Iron Base - 50lbs"
$ 30/pipe Three of: 1-1/2 in. x 10 ft. Black Steel Sch. 40 Pipe (Home depot)
One is cut into two 4” sections for the “T”
$ 30/each Two of: Cheeseboro Clamp, Rigid
$ ?/each Four sand bags, two per tree. I use bags of gravel from a hardware, wrapped in 3mil black trash bags, held together by lots of black tape.

Interesting, never thought about building my own trees. That would help a lot of things. Didn't know you could buy those bases, and never heard of a Cheeseboro clamp. Thanks!

 

[JD]

Interesting, never thought about building my own trees. That would help a lot of things. Didn't know you could buy those bases, and never heard of a Cheeseboro clamp. Thanks!

Well, we sometimes call it a Cheeseburger clamp, but that's another story!

(Actually, that's 1/2 of a cheeseburger, or a whole one off McDonald's dollar menu!)

 

[hemismith]

I rented some S4 pars yesterday and compared them to my cheap pars. Wow do they put out some light. Not a good idea to look directly at them! Weight isn't too bad, and I was actually able to change a lens without tools. Spill is worse than my pars without a snoot though but about the same with one. And it doesn't impact the balance noticeably.

I tried to measure the intensity with an iphone app but I don't trust the measurements; hard to know if I was exactly in the center, and it may have saturated the camera sensor. I also took some pictures, although they didn't come out as I had hoped.

I also didn't realize that my GE par 64 NSP bulbs are oval like the MFL bulbs; the S4 NSP lens produces a round light pool.

 

[JD]

I also didn't realize that my GE par 64 NSP bulbs are oval like the MFL bulbs; the S4 NSP lens produces a round light pool.

That has actually been a complaint about the S4 PAR! Oval comes in handy. Still, whatever best meats the needs. The S4 is more "Fresnel like" where as a standard PAR is basically a big headlight in a can. Oval beam is a hallmark of the standard PAR.

 

[hemismith]

That has actually been a complaint about the S4 PAR! Oval comes in handy. Still, whatever best meats the needs. The S4 is more "Fresnel like" where as a standard PAR is basically a big headlight in a can. Oval beam is a hallmark of the standard PAR.

Yeah, as I was looking at it I realized I would need 3 S4 pars to cover what I normally can with 2 regular pars (although I would need twice as many regular pars to equal the intensity).