Complete new rig...

[windspeed36]

Hi,

Hopefully this post is in the correct spot but i digress. I am putting together an event hire and production company together here in Melbourne Australia (240v 10a/500v 32amp). I am trying to sort out what I am going to do for lighting - I already work with a small local company that is looking to close down soon (next 5 years) because he is now nearing retirement age and as he says "...getting too old for this ****.." So I am looking to take over his business trade but to a slightly larger level. The work varies between 5 man bands in function rooms to 8k people at outdoor festivals across 3 stages.

The other person whom I am going into this industry full time with is in charge of lighting as he's worked in that area since about the age of 11. Unfortunately he is incredibly busy at the moment so he doesn't have the time to sit down and work out an equipment list, so it looks like thats my job.

As I said the work varies from event to event so this is sort of the list that i've come up with so far in terms of fixtures.

• 16 x Martin MAC700 Profile
• 8 x Martin MAC700 Wash
• 16 x Martin MAC350 Entour
• 8 x Martin SCX700
• 8 x ROBE LEDForce PAR 18 RGBW - 4 a side on Tbar's for bands
• 12 x Chromlech JARAG5 or Chromlech JARAGL (audience blinder/wash)
• 8 x PAR56 and 32 x PAR64's for bands with Jands4PAK-D dimmer

I'm still yet to decide on dimmers and control and i've been looking around for some decent LED strips for audience washes but to no luck so far.

So what would you get if you had to organize the a hire/event invetory for an event company varying from 150 people and a 5 piece band in a function room (without 3 phase power) to 8k people along three stages for an outdoor waterfront festival.

I know i'm going to be asked for a budget but I don't have much of a clue - total budget for the start up is at around 4-600k however the less I spend the less I owe. Sound has so far taken around 250-300.

Cheers for the help guys

 

[LXPlot]

You may want to move away from purchasing that many units unless you will be using them on a regular basis. I don't know how stable and how much work you will have, but what you have listed there seems to be closer to what you would want for mid to large gigs in your range. If that equipment is just going to sit around for a while, it might make economic sense to have a smaller rig and rent more for the bigger gigs. That said, if you expect constant work which will 1) utilize what you buy and 2) help pay for what you buy then what you have there is reasonable.

I'm not the person to ask about dimming, but if you plan on doing mostly live events and not writing cue lists, the Avolite consoles seem to fit well into what you want at a reasonable price, whereas if you plan on writing cue lists the Hog line is more along what you want. But which console really depends on what the guy you're working with prefers.

 

[gcpsoundlight]

Fwiw, LSC Lighting (based in melbourne) are about to release the LX300 console, which runs a version of Clarity. Not sure on pricing at the moment.

 

[bishopthomas]

It seems like you have a fairly good grasp on what your market is asking for. You've also considered power requirements for venues where you will be working off whatever is in the room. One thing to consider, though, about taking over another company's business is that you cannot rely on those clients coming to you. Even if they know you, are comfortable with you, and know what your plans are, you are not guaranteed their loyalty. I had (have) the chance to buy out another company right now, or at least take over full control, but there's no way to count on those clients sticking around. They're there because of the previous owner, not much else (besides price); take that relationship out and there's no reason why they should stay.

Another thing to think about is the infrastructure to make this all come together. Truss, lifts, motors, rigging hardware, power distro, cases, even cables cost a lot of money. Spansets alone add up to hundreds of dollars, to put it in perspective. What kind of equipment already is in place by the (soon to be) previous owner? I would recommend buying whatever is not there now, and is high demand. If you find yourself renting it often then you should probably buy it. If you need an item once or twice a year it's usually better to rent, unless it's going to be paid for within two to three rentals.

As far as your actual list, I would lose the scanners. I'm just not a fan of them, and with your ML's the scanners will probably not see a lot of use. They're sometimes good for dry rentals; I got a call for some the other day myself and had to turn it down. But personally I'm not in the business to rent equipment, and especially not for cheap bands. I'm not sure what to recommend for dimmers, kind of just depends on what you can get in your part of the world. I would look for something that can be set to relay mode. Control will be dictated by what the market demands if you're working with LD's and filling riders (which you should have no problem doing with the rest of your gear selection), or it will be based on your personal preference and what you feel comfortable on. Where I am GrandMA makes the most sense for rider friendliness and cross rental, but you know your market better than us (hopefully).

Whatever you decide, good luck with it. It's a tough time to be starting any kind of business, much less one in the entertainment industry. Lastly, welcome to Control Booth! I hope to read only success stories as you make millions!

 

[windspeed36]

One thing to consider, though, about taking over another company's business is that you cannot rely on those clients coming to you. Even if they know you, are comfortable with you, and know what your plans are, you are not guaranteed their loyalty. I had (have) the chance to buy out another company right now, or at least take over full control, but there's no way to count on those clients sticking around. They're there because of the previous owner, not much else (besides price); take that relationship out and there's no reason why they should stay.

Another thing to think about is the infrastructure to make this all come together. Truss, lifts, motors, rigging hardware, power distro, cases, even cables cost a lot of money. Spansets alone add up to hundreds of dollars, to put it in perspective. What kind of equipment already is in place by the (soon to be) previous owner? I would recommend buying whatever is not there now, and is high demand. If you find yourself renting it often then you should probably buy it. If you need an item once or twice a year it's usually better to rent, unless it's going to be paid for within two to three rentals.

Most equipment - both sound and lighting, is slowly comming up to needing to be replaced - he has only tri-truss and a heap of 56's and 64's. He normally hires anything else he would need. Most of his business was small time in terms of lighting because he's a sound guy and doesn't have anyone with great experience in terms of lighting design whereas i do.

As far as your actual list, I would lose the scanners. I'm just not a fan of them, and with your ML's the scanners will probably not see a lot of use

Noted

I'm not sure what to recommend for dimmers, kind of just depends on what you can get in your part of the world. I would look for something that can be set to relay mode.

I've got access to pretty much everything and anything - Jands, Martin, ETC, Robe, Phillips Vari-Lite, MA ect.

Control will be dictated by what the market demands if you're working with LD's and filling riders (which you should have no problem doing with the rest of your gear selection), or it will be based on your personal preference and what you feel comfortable on. Where I am GrandMA makes the most sense for rider friendliness and cross rental, but you know your market better than us (hopefully).

I'll talk to Jake (my lighting guy) as he will be the one using the desk most of the time. I know exactly what you mean about consoles you feel comfortable on.

Cheers for your help mate

Chris

 

[tk2k]

Most equipment - both sound and lighting, is slowly comming up to needing to be replaced - he has only tri-truss and a heap of 56's and 64's. He normally hires anything else he would need. Most of his business was small time in terms of lighting because he's a sound guy and doesn't have anyone with great experience in terms of lighting design whereas i do.

Noted

I've got access to pretty much everything and anything - Jands, Martin, ETC, Robe, Phillips Vari-Lite, MA ect.

I'll talk to Jake (my lighting guy) as he will be the one using the desk most of the time. I know exactly what you mean about consoles you feel comfortable on.

Cheers for your help mate

Chris

in terms of audience wash LEDs i'm still a huge fan of the ColorKinetics (phillips) Colorblaze 72 units. I've used them as footlight in the Hynes Center in Boston (200 ft ceiling, 5k house) and when facing the audience painted the balcony in a noticeable red. They should also be fairly cheap (easily had for 2.1 with road case in the US) as the new version was just released.

I don't see any conventional spots in there? Are you already covered on that? some Tungston light can be really useful for those 'speaker' moments, and with Arc lighting it cuts and isolates very nicely. even if it's just one or two s4n ers units.

In terms of console for non-cue based systems i'm not really sure, but I've successfully used an Ion for live shows with fader wings, program macros or effects onto the buttons, works fairly well.

For the LEDs possibly consider Madrix, it's very smart LED control software that will automatically respond to music (not audio, music, this thing does very advanced signal processing) and can be had here for quite cheap. Doesn't offer intelligent fixture control, but it's good for dynamic bands that change tempo or play songs out of order, as it's usually 95% there before you re-tap

 

[Chris15]

First a correction on the electricity... It's 230V single phase or 400V 3 phase nominally (it was 240/415 in former times)- the connectors are rated for greater than the operating voltage (and so they should be)

The Jands test procedure for dimmer racks used to be (though I can't guarantee it still is) to take it out to the loading dock and drop it off the side
Then power up and if it doesn't still work the design still needs work...

The 4pak-D is a nice product - but you won't be able to run 64s off it very easily - your series wired pair is 2kW so your whole dimmer is used up...

I like that the Aussie industry has pretty much standardised on 3RU 12 packs of dimmers - they are a lot more flexible than larger racks.
I'd stick with that for the sake of cross rental and being able to send dimmers to multiple places at once.
The Jands HPC series I think it is has a proper relay onboard to allow distirbution of clean power out the channels - useful when you want the fleixbility of intermingling movers with dimmables
Otherwise something akin to the PDS12 is a fairly usual means of doing power distribution. (Drop me a line privately if you want to know my full opinions on power distribution).

 

[windspeed36]

First a correction on the electricity... It's 230V single phase or 400V 3 phase nominally (it was 240/415 in former times)- the connectors are rated for greater than the operating voltage (and so they should be)

The Jands test procedure for dimmer racks used to be (though I can't guarantee it still is) to take it out to the loading dock and drop it off the side
Then power up and if it doesn't still work the design still needs work...

The 4pak-D is a nice product - but you won't be able to run 64s off it very easily - your series wired pair is 2kW so your whole dimmer is used up...

I like that the Aussie industry has pretty much standardised on 3RU 12 packs of dimmers - they are a lot more flexible than larger racks.
I'd stick with that for the sake of cross rental and being able to send dimmers to multiple places at once.
The Jands HPC series I think it is has a proper relay onboard to allow distirbution of clean power out the channels - useful when you want the fleixbility of intermingling movers with dimmables
Otherwise something akin to the PDS12 is a fairly usual means of doing power distribution. (Drop me a line privately if you want to know my full opinions on power distribution).

My mistake about the power - I was doing it purely based off memory from what the venues I work have and what I remember seeing printed on the actual outlets and cables. I was planning on using the 4pak for 56's. Thanks for the help with HPC


@tk2k - thanks for the info about the LED wash, i've been struggling to find any decent ones, the only results are $200 American DJ and Chauvet crap

 

[kiwitechgirl]

TheatreLight over in NZ make dimmers which are virtually indestructible and are to be found in every hire company and school in the country, just about...the PowerPack or RackPack are the two I'd be looking at, depending if you want rackmount or not. Info here.

 

[gcpsoundlight]

Another option is the LSC redbacks