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Control/Dimming Crimp stage pin connectors. Reusable?

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by TheTheaterGeek, May 24, 2017.

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Stage Pin, Edison, Twist Lock, Or.....Other

  1. Stage Pin

    42.9%
  2. Edison

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Twist Lock

    14.3%
  4. Stage Plug

    14.3%
  5. E-Tape ad Prayer

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Other

    28.6%
  1. TheTheaterGeek

    TheTheaterGeek EOS Addict Premium Member Fight Leukemia

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    I have a bunch of fixtures that im replacing sockets on, and they all have crimped stage pin connectors, is there any way to reuse these? Do you have to buy new pins? Is it even worth it?

    Clay
     
  2. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

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    If it's the ones I'm thinking of, no, they aren't reuseable. I'm not sure if you could get pins, and if you could, you'd also need the proper indent tool.
     
    Van likes this.
  3. theatricalmatt

    theatricalmatt Active Member

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    Trim the wire leads a little shorter and re-crimp. Or, lacking crimps, strip back more wire than is needed, and fold it over (to create a double-thickness of material).
     
  4. Van

    Van CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    Never seen a "crimp-on" stage pin. I've seen crimp-on ferrules that are inserted into screw down open-ended stage pins. But those are not reusable.
    You know, "A picture is worth a thousand people trying to figure out what you mean."
     
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  5. SteveB

    SteveB Well-Known Member

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    Attached, blurry photo of a Union 2P&G crimp connector.

    As note, note sure what the poll is asking. Do you want to know if crimps are reusable - no, they're not. Or do you want to know what connector I use ?.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. theatricalmatt

    theatricalmatt Active Member

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    Oddly, I was picturing the crimped sleeves typically used on Bates / Marinco plugs, rather than the flag lugs used on Union Connector plugs (among others).
     
  7. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    No.
    Yes.
    Probably. Provided the cost of three pins is less than an entire connector of another brand. I have no idea how much the pins are, nor where to look for them. PLUS, the cost of the proper crimp tool, which I guarantee is not inexpensive, unless one is installing thousands of plugs.

    Bates_crimp.jpg
    And now you have. Many assemblers (including ETC, IIRC) prefer to use this type. I'm pretty sure I don't approve.


    As was I, so we're both either wrong or right.
     
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  8. theatricalmatt

    theatricalmatt Active Member

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    Huh. That's the first time I've seen a Bates connector that crimped onto the wire, as opposed to using a set screw to lock down onto a ferrule crimped onto the wire. I'm pretty certain you'd be able to remove the prongs on those and upgrade them.
     
  9. Scarrgo

    Scarrgo Active Member

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    I had several of that style of bates that @derekleffew posted, you can buy what I would call normal replacement pins for those, really easy to replace and still a little cheaper than buying a new plug...

    I bought my replacement pins at BMI...
    Sean...
     
  10. kicknargel

    kicknargel Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I think this is a bad idea. Please use the connectors as designed.
     
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  11. Van

    Van CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    @derekleffew If we don't let them post their own pictures, they'll never learn...
    :angryoldman:
     
  12. SteveB

    SteveB Well-Known Member

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    Problem with this is you are tightening a screw onto stranded wire. This does not make for a good contact even when doubling the thickness of the wire. You might get away with it on a low wattage load but not for a full load.

    Easy enough to just order a few bags of the crimp sleeves.
     
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  13. Dionysus

    Dionysus Well-Known Member

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    Yes doubling over conductors to make a larger terminal work is a big no-no... Also using a terminal not intended for the wire type is a big no no. Stranded wire should only be used were things are designed for stranded wire.
    Refer to Electrical Code "Wireing Methods".
     
  14. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    First I believe you can specify with ETC crimped verses ferrul terminal plugs on request. If not - request them un-terminated because yes once crimp terminated it's useless.

    That said.. a ferrule terminated stage pin plug obviously with a 12ga ferrule and 16ga wire in won't center the wire properly, and that 12ga ferrule will with screw put into it cut thru the ferrule while sinking down to the 16ga wire. It's going to score or cut conductors.

    Analize that concept in why or how it happens.

    16ga wire folded on itself.. 16+16=13ga. Electrical math any two same gauge wires into the same hole equal three sizes larger in gauge. Except that the bend/fold in the front of the wire probably will prevent a fold in a 16ga heat wire to fit into a 12ga ferrule unless you trimmed away a few strands on the folded back size. That's how I would do it on site.

    Problem in 16ga wire working properly with a 12ga ferrule with 16ga wire.

    What if instead of folding wire back - time consuming etc... you were to buy insulated 16ga ferrules and insert the wire into them, than insert the 12ga un-insulated wire ferrule over it? You now have two pieces of metal ferrule to center the wire on the screw now with two plates of ferrule metal being screwed into it to prevent that screw cutting thru all the metal. (Side note, a 14ga un-insulated furrle fits also in more metal between screw and wire, but two ferrules is normally enough).

    This is the standard I have established at work and it has worked well without question for almost 20 years now.
     

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