Dimmer for architectural LED fixtures?

T

TJCornish

Well-Known Member
I'm trying to advise a venue that I do shows in how to make their house lighting more production friendly. They recently replaced a bunch of T8 4' fixtures with some kind of LED version that looks like a fluorescent fixture, but is an LED array. I wasn't able to find out the exact model.

Ideally I'd like to have a backpack dimmer mounted at each fixture, but apparently the Philips BakPak has been discontinued? Is there any replacement? I don't think I need more than 100w per dimmer, if there's something that can be mounted at each fixture. They would need to be hardwire in/out.

Thanks for any suggestions.
 
Would need a lot more information. First things first: Are the lamps rated as "dimmable" ? Many of the trother LED upgrades are not. As long as they are, the second question is- Are the fixtures with the LED replacements over 50 watts? Many dimmers will have problems with loads under 50 watts. There are specialized products, but if the fixtures are dimmable and over 50 watts, then almost any dimmer will do. Remember, the dimmer curve for LEDs is wildly different than it is for other lamps. Sometimes, if you are running these off a serious board, you may be able to set up or load a profile that makes them quite a bit better.
 
For the new LED troffer, some are by default dimmable and others just have switching LED drivers in them. Of the ones that by default come with a dimming driver, they are overwhelmingly 0-10V dimmable. The BakPak would not be able to dim this. If these troffers are 0-10V dimmable and you want to control them via DMX, I'd recommend using the Philips Captivation Relay Dimmer, PN DC-DRD-I-1S-101

They come preset to DMX address 1 so you'd need a DMNG-USB-NA to tap in and reset the DMX address.

As a disclaimer, I do work as a Category Sale Manager for Philips Lighting Controls and Strand.
 
As previous replies illustrate, there is no one smp!e answer for dimming LEDs. Tell us the fixture model and perhaps we can help.
 
Thanks for the replies. I was hoping to suggest a couple possibilities for the venue to research further - I may or may not be able to get the model out of them. It's not a T-8 replacement bulb - it's a new fixture.

JD - I would say that it's very likely that each fixture is less than 50 watts. I'm hoping for individual control - the room is used in several configurations where the existing banking is unfortunate.

JMPoulin - why did they discontinue the bak pak? That seemed to be a unique product being an IGBT design.
 
In my experience, most LED troffers come with a driver that will take 0-10 vdc. A pathway [HASHTAG]#1004[/HASHTAG] demultiplexer - with 16 0-10 outputs might be the solution - so one unit and 0-10 to each fixture. I like the Fleenor DMX8DIM but for retrofit LED lamps with built in drivers, since it is a mains output. Acuity makes an HPEPP for some of their LEDs that have 0-10 drivers and it is for one fixture with a DMX in and out, but you'd have better dimming curve and consistency with the [HASHTAG]#1004[/HASHTAG] - just more low voltage wire.

Re: bak pack - is the Strand LightPak a replacement?
 
Answering my own question, or reporting the answer, yes, the light pak replaces the back pak.
 
I have had several recent cases where the answer was a forward phase, transformer rated dimmer. Some of the wallbox type can be pretty good, but it's very random which work with which.

I also just put in an ETC rack just for the ELV modules, with lots of settings available to adapt to a mess of different LEDs.
 
@TJ and Bill

Strand manufactured the Lightpack and Lightolier rebranded it as BakPak. There are a few products Lightolier no longer carries that were made by Strand, but Strand still has them.

The question still remains, what type of dimming does your luminaire require?
 
Perhaps they should look at ETC's new Unison Echo line. I know all the details are currently preliminary, but there are adaptive phase control dimmers coming out. The only downside would be the need for a controller to adapt EchoConnect to DMX, unless there is a product I haven't seen the prelim spec for.
 
I've reached out to the venue electrician who said he was going to be working in the room this week and would get a model number. That hasn't happened yet - I will ping him again.

Here is the best shot I have of one of the fixtures. It looks like it could be a 2'x4' troffer since it has flush trim on it, but I don't remember it seeming that wide in person. Hopefully I can get the correct answer eventually.

Thanks for the thoughts.
Mystery_LED.jpg
 
JMPoulin said:
@TJ and Bill

Strand manufactured the Lightpack and Lightolier rebranded it as BakPak. There are a few products Lightolier no longer carries that were made by Strand, but Strand still has them.

The question still remains, what type of dimming does your luminaire require?
Click to expand...
I am still a bit confused, as Philips owns Strand, but they say the BakPak is discontinued and to call for more options:
http://www.philipslightingcontrols.com/discontinued-bak-pak

Is the Strand version still available?
 
BillConnerASTC said:
Yes - different name: http://www.strandlighting.com/index...ucts&srctype=detail&refno=38&category=Dimmers

Need the manufacturer of teh LED troffer at least to guess. If it's designed to dim, chances are it takes a 0-10 volt signal to the driver. These must be very high glare.
Click to expand...
I wonder why Philips didn't just update the original page with a link and "New and improved"? I apparently would be a terrible marketing person.

The venue in question is a 220' x 100' gym and these fixtures range from about 13' off the floor to 19' off the floor (sloped ceiling). They are rather jarring at the moment going from a full-dark house to insta-daylight. I wouldn't classify the biggest issues as glare, but rather they are a bit stark. The room previously had a black painted ceiling, and the old fixtures were 1x4 2-bulb T8s in the same positions as the new ones. The difference is dramatic - probably 3x the brightness, and I would guess for 80% of the room's use, a huge upgrade. For those of us trying to do theater/concert style events, it's more of a side-grade, exchanging one problem for another.
 
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