Dimmers

[StageTech620]

Hello! I work for a few community theaters, who are trying to upgrade their lighting system. We currently have 10 portable dimmer packs, but we are trying to upgrade to rack dimmers. We were looking at a Eurorack LD6230 6 Channel Rack. I see that it requires 3 phase power. We only have 1 phase power, with 20 Amp Breakers, which terminate in Edison connectors. Our fixtures also have Edison connectors. How would we wire this dimmer to accept Edison Power in, and 6 Edison Outs which will go to the fixtures?

 

[WVTheatre]

If possible, try to have your electric company install a three phase disconnect. If not, and please correct me if I am wrong, but you should be able to wire the rack to three separate 20A Edison plugs. Each plug would require ONE phase (A, B, or C), as well as Neutral, and Ground. Don't quote me as I'm not an electrician by training, but that's my thought.

 

[WVTheatre]

Hopefully this is the same product, but I've posted a link below with the manual. Looks like my above solution would be viable if that's the case. See page 4.
http://www.behringer.com/assets/LD6230_P0140_I_EN.pdf

 

[StageTech620]

Ok. That's along the lines of what I was thinking. I'm completely new to dimmers. So I would have 3 Edison's going to 3 different breakers. That would be all 60Amps. Then, I connect the hot to L1, L2, L3? Why is there 2 of each "L"? Also, how do I connect the dimmer to the lights?

 

[mikeydoesstuff]

Looks like you Feed your output cable in through the strain relief connections on the back, and hardwire into the terminal strip.

But, why these dimmers? Which portables are you moving away from?

 

[StageTech620]

Ok. But, I'm lost on the terminal thing. Can you provide me with a pin out kind of thing? So what do the "L" connections go to? Where do I wire in the Edison's?

 

[mikeydoesstuff]

You can connect a pin out, or just an ed mluti.
http://www.behringer.com/assets/LD6230_P0140_I_EN.pdf scroll through the manual (same link as above) and you'll come across a terminal. feed your pin out connector through the back, and feed each of the wires into the appropriate terminal slots.

Where will you be installing your rack? how you wire out from this will be affected by how you plan to use your gear. I'm sure you dont want to pin out in a booth and run soca all the way from foh to stage

images related:
http://medias.audiofanzine.com/images/normal/behringer-eurolight-ld6230-923230.jpg
http://mozartcase.com/images/1407420155_DSC_0019.JPG

Please note, I am offering options, but I personally don't feel comfortable advising on the safety aspect.

 

[jonliles]

I think at this point, you need to call an electrician. You also need the installation manual to the rack. It should be possible to connect it to single phase, but the manufacturer will need to tell the electrician how.

 

[StageTech620]

Thank you all for you inputs. Why do I need to call an electrician? It makes sense to just put all three "phases" on three different 1 phase breakers/circuits. It does the same thing, right? If I or someone else qualified goes to wire this, would it be wired this way?:

L1: Hot Edison Input Feed (#1)
L1: Nuetral Edison Input Feed (#1)
L2: Hot Edison Input Feed (#2)
L2: Nuetral Edison Input Feed (#2)
L3: Hot Edison Input Feed (#3)
L3: Nuetral Edison Input Feed (#3)

Is this how the input power should be wired? If so, does it matter which "L" terminal the hot or neutral goes in?

Outputs:
E1: Channel One Hot
E2: Channel Two Hot
E3: Channel Three Hot
E4: Channel Four Hot
E5: Channel Five Hot
E6: Channel Six Hot
N= Channel 1-6 Nuetral

Is this correct?

Also, what do I do with the ground for all the fixtures and dimmer rack?

 

[microstar]

I think at this point, you need to call an electrician. You also need the installation manual to the rack. It should be possible to connect it to single phase, but the manufacturer will need to tell the electrician how.

Thank you all for you inputs. Why do I need to call an electrician? It makes sense to just put all three "phases" on three different 1 phase breakers/circuits. It does the same thing, right? If I or someone else qualified goes to wire this, would it be wired this way?:

L1: Hot Edison Input Feed (#1)
L1: Nuetral Edison Input Feed (#1)
L2: Hot Edison Input Feed (#2)
L2: Nuetral Edison Input Feed (#2)
L3: Hot Edison Input Feed (#3)
L3: Nuetral Edison Input Feed (#3)

Is this how the input power should be wired? If so, does it matter which "L" terminal the hot or neutral goes in?

Outputs:
E1: Channel One Hot
E2: Channel Two Hot
E3: Channel Three Hot
E4: Channel Four Hot
E5: Channel Five Hot
E6: Channel Six Hot
N= Channel 1-6 Nuetral

Is this correct?

Also, what do I do with the ground for all the fixtures and dimmer rack?

The above is NOT correct.
I had one of these units once. Calling Behringer gets you the answer: "We don't give out that information. You need to have an electrician hook up the unit". That is also the reply the electrician will get!

That said, you are in above your head. Spend the money, call an electrician, and have him explain what he's doing as he works, that way you will learn something

It is NOT a good idea to wire L1, L2, and L3 to separate edison plugs. What happens when you plug one of them into a wall receptacle with reversed hot and neutral?

 

[StageTech620]

O

The above is NOT correct.
I had one of these units once. Calling Behringer gets you the answer: "We don't give out that information. You need to have an electrician hook up the unit". That is also the reply the electrician will get!

That said, you are in above your head. Spend the money, call an electrician, and have him explain what he's doing as he works, that way you will learn something

It is NOT a good idea to wire L1, L2, and L3 to separate edison plugs. What happens when you plug one of them into a wall receptacle with reversed hot and neutral?

ok. So on top of what the unit costs, I have to pay an electrician to hook it up? And your saying its not an option to use with Edison plugs? Why is that? How would the hot/neutral get reversed?

 

[Mac Hosehead]

Unfortunately, I believe you have misinterpreted the installation instructions and your wiring scheme will not work. The instructions state the L1/L1, L2/L2, L3/L3 terminals are tied together in pairs. Connecting a neutral to one of them would not be appropriate. Finding an electrician might be a good call here.

Also, any deviation from the installation instructions will usually void any warranties.

-MH

 

[n1ist]

The only code-compliant and safe way to wire the dimmer to a plug is to use a 3-phase Y plug (L21-20P) plugged into an appropriate receptacle or to hardwire it (but not with a flexible cord). Wiring to three 5-15P plugs can result in a lethal condition under certain faults.

Connecting a neutral to one of the Ln inputs will at best trip the breaker.

/mike

 

[mikeydoesstuff]

Thank you all for you inputs. Why do I need to call an electrician? It makes sense to just put all three "phases" on three different 1 phase breakers/circuits. It does the same thing, right? If I or someone else qualified goes to wire this, would it be wired this way?:

L1: Hot Edison Input Feed (#1)
L1: Nuetral Edison Input Feed (#1)
L2: Hot Edison Input Feed (#2)
L2: Nuetral Edison Input Feed (#2)
L3: Hot Edison Input Feed (#3)
L3: Nuetral Edison Input Feed (#3)

Is this how the input power should be wired? If so, does it matter which "L" terminal the hot or neutral goes in?

Outputs:
E1: Channel One Hot
E2: Channel Two Hot
E3: Channel Three Hot
E4: Channel Four Hot
E5: Channel Five Hot
E6: Channel Six Hot
N= Channel 1-6 Nuetral

Is this correct?

Also, what do I do with the ground for all the fixtures and dimmer rack?

Sorry friend, but you're answering your own question here. You're in need of an electrician because the work which needs to be done is not something you can do safely within your own knowledge.
If Cost of the electrician AND the dimmers is excludes the project from being completed then its safe to say that operating under the portable dimmer system you've already been using (presumably) safely is your best bet. Again, why are you changing your system?

 

[Dionysus]

Thank you all for you inputs. Why do I need to call an electrician? It makes sense to just put all three "phases" on three different 1 phase breakers/circuits. It does the same thing, right? If I or someone else qualified goes to wire this, would it be wired this way?:

L1: Hot Edison Input Feed (#1)
L1: Nuetral Edison Input Feed (#1)
L2: Hot Edison Input Feed (#2)
L2: Nuetral Edison Input Feed (#2)
L3: Hot Edison Input Feed (#3)
L3: Nuetral Edison Input Feed (#3)

Is this how the input power should be wired? If so, does it matter which "L" terminal the hot or neutral goes in?

Outputs:
E1: Channel One Hot
E2: Channel Two Hot
E3: Channel Three Hot
E4: Channel Four Hot
E5: Channel Five Hot
E6: Channel Six Hot
N= Channel 1-6 Nuetral

Is this correct?

Also, what do I do with the ground for all the fixtures and dimmer rack?

I have the obligation to parrot "THIS IS NOT CORRECT" DO NOT hook it up this way. If you don't understand these connections you OBVIOUSLY should NOT be the one to do it, there is a lot more to electrical codes etc than I am sure you are aware of.

You MUST hire a LICENSED electrician to hook something like this. If you were here I'd say that you'd want a contractor who is covered by the ESA ACP Program. PLEASE get it installed correctly by someone who knows what they are doing (not just says that they know, but actually does) and who will be covered by liability etc. An electrical contractor has various things that make you really want them to install it.

 

[Robert]

Just so you know, there is no way to get three phase power out of a single phase panel. It cannot be done.
Connecting three hots (circuit breakers) to the three power inputs will not give you three phase power.
Just so you know.
Maybe call a local theater supplier and ask them to come do a survey of your facility. They should be able to give you some advise about the possibilities of your available power.

 

[microstar]

ok. So on top of what the unit costs, I have to pay an electrician to hook it up? And your saying its not an option to use with Edison plugs? Why is that? How would the hot/neutral get reversed?

Hot and neutral , and neutral and ground, etc., get reversed quite frequently on wall outlets, especially in older buildings, by do it yourself and professional electricians.

 

[Amiers]

We have a few of these dimmers in our space. When I moved into this space we also had the portable dimmers. Everyone is correct about having an electrician come in and hook it up. We installed a dedicated panel because we also only have single phase and didn't have the money to upgrade to three phase. I wouldn't trust the Edison plugs for hooking up dimmers also because of what has been said. You will want to have this hard wired into a panel and if you can't upgrade to three phase then you are going to need a whole panel for your dimmers as each leg needs a 20amp breaker.

Finally, upgrading is expensive and if you can't cover all the costs don't cut corners and try it yourself. I would leave the portables in play til you can get enough funds to hire the proper person to install these. I wouldn't hire your everyday electrician either, I would call in someone that specializes in installing dimmers. A theatre company in your area would be able to recommend someone or a company that does these installs.

 

[StageTech620]

Thank you all! I didn't realize the differences between single and three phase systems. I do now, and I see that 3 phase is not in our book of options. We were trying to eliminate having to have a portable dimmer for every 2 S4s, but we will just have to keep that.

 

[Les]

Thank you all! I didn't realize the differences between single and three phase systems. I do now, and I see that 3 phase is not in our book of options. We were trying to eliminate having to have a portable dimmer for every 2 S4s, but we will just have to keep that.

I believe that Behringer pack you linked to can be wired for single phase use, albeit with lower capacity. This is a discontinued product - is there a particular reason you've chosen it (I assume price)?

There are other options out there as well which should be able to wire in to your single-phase system. Alternately, you can stick with a higher grade of portable dimmers (such as Leprecon ULD series) but you will need plenty of power to your positions. Some do have two separate input pigtails requiring 20A each.

Know what you're getting, but don't be opposed to buying used.