Control/Dimming DMX control over internet - From remote location

[Franklinscott57]

Hey CB,


Today at work, I was asked about DMX data being sent over the internet, and whether it was possible. Apparently, Buffalo is installing LED uplighting on buildings around the Downtown area. There are two separate companies that "need" to be able to access control of these lights - and they are in very different locations.

Having no previous experience controlling architectural lighting from an off-site location, I simply told them that I would look into it. Does anyone here have experience working with installations such as this, any advice?

I need to know what type of software/hardware is available for sending DMX over the world wide web - if it's even available at all. Also, if anyone has a better /more practical method of routing control to off-site locations - Let me know!

I'm doing my research right now - so forgive me if the answer is already somewhere on CB. I just wanted to get the question out so that people have time to reply.

In advance - THANKS!

 

[shiben]

Im sure you could do it, there would probably be mild to serious lag in there, but how much different could it be than streaming anything else over the internet? My guess, however, is there is probably a better method, some sort of internet based protocol that would let you control the control system from afar...

 

[Van]

When I was a Technician for Rosco/ET we could control The Vista Architectual program via the internet as well as the Horizon system. That was a long time ago however.

 

[shiben]

One solution that I just thought of but have used before was this: Run your lighting control software off a computer, and use logmein to access the computer from a remote location. Then anyone who needs to can access it, from anywhere, at any time, and have fairly decent control. Perhaps a second stream on the computer your working from with video feed from a webcam to confirm that their commands are taking effect.

 

[avkid]

Put an internet connected computer at the install site and remote control it.

 

[Gern]

Well it is certainly done to some fashion in places like Disney World. At least it used to be years ago. I'd contact ETC or Disney(or other theme parks) to see if they have input. I wonder if morte615 in Sandusky OH knows about this type of configuration.
Typically most venues keep the lighting network OFF the internet to limit potential security/stability issues.
I'd think the remote version as others mentioned would maybe be the best.

 

[Footer]

All of the lighting protocols to my knowledge are not routable to the extent that you need them to be. Now, you could run through a VPN and make it work. Best bet though is to keep the control local and remote desktop into the computer that is the controller as others have said. You don't really want ACN/Artnet to be streaming across town.

 

[Morte615]

As far as I know all the DMX over Ethernet protocols that I know about are not able to transverse the internet. I would contact ETC and see if their Net3 is able to work somehow.
The best thing I can suggest would be to use a computer solution and use something like http://gotomypc.com to Remote Desktop into and you can make changes there. I'm wondering if there are any lighting boards that can be connected to the internet and remote controlled? (Again a question for ETC I think?)

 

[Morte615]

Just looking on ETC's website found this: Lighting solutions for Theatre, Film & Television Studios and Architectural spaces : ETC
It should work for what you are looking for.

 

[sk8rsdad]

The topology of such a system would involve remote management of local controllers. As has been pointed out, ACN and Artnet are UDP multicast protocols, which are likely going to be blocked at the first ISP router they encounter. It may be possible to route them via VPN but that can get expensive in a hurry. Reliability is a problem in any WAN-based deployment so most engineers would recommend a local controller with some form of remote access.

Network security is another concern. Nobody is going to be happy if the system gets hacked so I'd suggest looking at rackmount controllers that could be installed in whatever data center the IT department is managing and SSH or VPN tunneling to get to it. Using ETC gear (for no better reason than familiarity) something could be cobbled together with an Ion RPU and a dedicated PC (possibly a virtual machine in said data center) running Eos client with remote desktop enabled, and Net3 gateways near the fixtures.

 

[MNicolai]

While it isn't exactly what you're looking for, Wybron's Infogate software may be of interest to you on this project. It won't let you program a show remotely, but if all of the fixtures are RDM-compatible, Infogate will give you a remote web interface you can use to track if any fixtures are registering errors.

 

[chausman]

I'm wondering if there are any lighting boards that can be connected to the internet and remote controlled? (Again a question for ETC I think?)

Possibly. A light board nowadays is just a computer. If it was something like a Strand that can easily get to the windows desktop, you might be able to do that. Just a thought.

 

[Edrick]

It all really depends you need more info from them. Why DMX? Are they just calling it DMX (possible they just used the term) so check what protocol they're using and what's actually controlling them locally.

You're talking about architectural lighting on the side of a building. Any lighting console is extremely overkill and probably won't do what they want.

What do they hope to achieve with this setup and accessing it remotely? Is it to actually control it live with no delay or just issue a command to tell it to change to another pattern for the holidays?

Most architectural solutions I've seen have their own embedded control system.

 

[Morte615]

Possibly. A light board nowadays is just a computer. If it was something like a Strand that can easily get to the windows desktop, you might be able to do that. Just a thought.

Yeah I was actually picturing the ION or EOS which I know are just Windows machines with a custom control surface and A LOT of custom programming. But the base OS is Windows so I am thinking it would be possible to set up some type of Remote Access for the console. Of course then you run into lots of questions such as security and processor usage.

And depending on the scale of the system projected you could use something like the EOS RPU which is essentially a console without the control surface. Or even as previously suggested just use a PC based lighting program and operate with a USB to DMX dongle.

 

[Les]

You may want to contact Jeff (jmabray). I know that he has been working on a similar LED color-changing skyline in Ft. Worth Texas.

I'm not sure how remote the control is, but it is controlled from a centralized location.

 

[Gern]

You may want to contact Jeff (jmabray). I know that he has been working on a similar LED color-changing skyline in Ft. Worth Texas.

I'm not sure how remote the control is, but it is controlled from a centralized location.

That sounds more like the systems I've heard of in the past.
I was in ETC West years ago, around when Congo was new(er), and that is when I was told of Disney World's 'remote' capability regarding 'Magic Sheets' and Show control attractions. This attraction(I've never been there & can't remember which it was) was a full show control area with lighting, sound, effects like smoke & water for a pirate fighting area. Maybe like Disneyland's Pirates of the Caribbean?
Point was that it was remotely Tweak-able in regards to timing and volume and other parameters. So, no I never thought that was DMX over the internet.

 

[DavidNorth]

There are two different ways to do this: send live data over the internet or have remote controllers accessed over the internet.

I think you'll find there are more solutions for the latter. Place a lighting controller in each major facility and route ENET/DMX locally to all the nearby fixtures and devices. Program the controller for a variety of looks based on whatever your triggers will want to execute.

Important point....using local controllers gives you a level of protection in case your LAN/Internet connection goes down. The lights keep running on the local controller without the internet connection and you only lose the ability to choose new looks or do overrides.

You might want lights to change based on astronomical time [time relative to the sun], real time [time based on hour of day], holiday [Valentine's, Christmas], sporting event, rain or clouds, temperature, pressure [yes, been done], music, etc. Set these looks or chases in the local controller.

Most often these will programmed with a regular set of looks or chases based on astro time which can be changed or overridden as needed.

Then, through remote control software, use the internet as your connection to change the coordinated looks or update looks.

You should seriously consider Mosaic and RemoteManager as they are designed for this purpose and have been employed to do so on quite a number of installations. Unison Paradigm has also been used similarly on large theme parks but I think Mosaic will be better for your application.

Yes, ETC has a lot of experience with these solutions out of the box, and yes, I work for ETC [and have worked on the large parks since 1995].

Have fun with the project!

David

 

[jmabray]

Yes, I do have a project that is just like this. (Thanks for the mention, Les.)

In downtown Fort Worth the buildings have had old style (the larger ones) christmas tree lights outlining them for years. In the past couple of years we have been going through the process of converting them all over to LED. ( a building or two at a time)

On the job there is currently 3 MSC 2, one MSC 50 and one MSC 20. There is shortly going to be the addition of 2 more MSC 2's (total of 80 universes of DMX).

We use their existing network for the MSC's to talk to one another and for the MSC's to talk to the 21 4 port gateways on the job as well. They control all of this via the software from a location in a different building. As David describes above, Remote Manager could also be used to edit and upload the configuration files from a remote location as well.

ETC's write up can be found here: Lighting solutions for Theatre, Film & Television Studios and Architectural spaces : ETC

And some video from a guy who lives in a Hi-rise building near the site.

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http://youtu.be/3_k2K8w3e9o

Let me know if you have any questions. I will be more than happy to help as I can.

 

[Joeartist11]

Yeah I was actually picturing the ION or EOS which I know are just Windows machines with a custom control surface and A LOT of custom programming. But the base OS is Windows so I am thinking it would be possible to set up some type of Remote Access for the console. Of course then you run into lots of questions such as security and processor usage.

And depending on the scale of the system projected you could use something like the EOS RPU which is essentially a console without the control surface. Or even as previously suggested just use a PC based lighting program and operate with a USB to DMX dongle.

I am working on an exhibit and am having the same question about remote access to an ETC ION. Is it possible to use a PC running the EOS software to allow remote access (Screen Sharing/VPN) to control the ION via the computer software?

A few question:

- I believe I need an ETCnomad key in order to control the ION console?
- If I need a key, do I need to have the same amount of dmx addresses as the ION itself? (I upgraded to the 1500, 3 universes)

Any help would be appreciated.

-Joe

 

[sk8rsdad]

Yes, a PC running Nomad can control an Ion. There are 3 configurations: mirroring, client, and peer (backup or master).

• mirror mode lets the PC view what is happening on the Ion. No dongle is required.
• client mode lets you control the Ion. A client dongle or an ETCnomad dongle enables this functionality. The license count does not have to be the same as the Ion.
• peer. A client dongle or ETCnomad dongle enables this functionality. The number of outputs is determined by the minimum license count either the dongle or the Ion. Older client dongles behave like a 256 output ETCnomad dongle but the license count cannot be upgraded.

... or you could use OSC, UDP strings or MIDI without the need for any dongle. The license count is determined by the Ion.