DMX Follow Spots

[mwebb]

I'm outfitting a new 430-seat proscenium theatre, and along with a large conventional and intelligent package, I'd like to invest in DMX-controlled follow spots. We're in the 80' throw range; I'm looking mostly at 1200w HMI units.

I have experience with the Robert Juliat Lucy (and love it) but without the motorized dimmer package. Has anyone used it? Are there other follows out there I should consider? I'm not particularly interested in fully automated units. I still want the ops to manually adjust iris and color. I'd just like to have console control of fades like an incandescent without sacrificing the output.

So, broadly, how do you all feel about follows with motorized dimmers in general? Are clean fades and precise cueing worth the expense? Do you have a line you like particularly?

 

[derekleffew]

Robert Juliat is the only manufacturer I know that offers such devices as options from the factory. Of course, one could slap a Wybron Eclipse (or similar) DMX-controlled douser on any followspot.

I've used the Heloise, I think, on a live TV awards show and it wasn't a happy experience (though no fault of the instrument). The spot ops didn't like the board op having control of their lights, and the board op had, in her mind at least, higher priorities than ensuring the truss spots were on or off at the correct time.

In my opinion, it adds unnecessary complexity and depends on a great deal of trust between all involved. Even on rock shows with ops running moving lights manually controlling only pan and tilt, the ops didn't like it as they had to pay attention the entire show and "stay on their guy" whether the light was on or off.

...So, broadly, how do you all feel about follows with motorized dimmers in general? ...

A mechanical dimmer on a gaseous discharge source will never match the modified square law dimmer curve of an incandescent lamp. There's a reason (several actually) the remote-douser idea hasn't overtaken the market.

 

[mwebb]

I've used the Heloise, I think, on a live TV awards show and it wasn't a happy experience (though no fault of the instrument). The spot ops didn't like the board op having control of their lights, and the board op had, in her mind at least, higher priorities than ensuring the truss spots were on or off at the correct time.

In my opinion, it adds unnecessary complexity and depends on a great deal of trust between all involved. Even on rock shows with ops running moving lights manually controlling only pan and tilt, the ops didn't like it as they had to pay attention the entire show and "stay on their guy" whether the light was on or off.

Let me add, then, that we're a long-run producing company, so repeatability from opening to closing is very important. I can certainly see the frustration of ops on a one-off performance, but I feel the more I can take out of the spot's hands and place in the SM and LD's, the better the production - particularly when we sub or replace ops over the length of the run.

 

[SteveB]

In a scenario with unskilled operators being the norm, I could understand what you are trying to achieve, but in general, most long term running shows have the spot operators in complete control and do not suffer from repeatability issues, Broadway and Las Vegas as well as many large touring productions being typical.

The major advantage of having an operator that is in control of the light is they get to know the show as well as the console op. and as well as the SM (as well as being able to better see what's going on compared to the SM). Thus they often are faster at adjusting to timing and placement issues (new cast member ?).

Thus I think you are over-thinking the potential for problems. Possibly this is one of the reasons few spot manufacturers make DMX controlled dowsers - no call for them. I know that Lycian had contemplated them for the 1200 series xenon spots, actually having a slot to install one, but when nobody buys them, perhaps it's a solution without a problem.

 

[mwebb]

Thus I think you are over-thinking the potential for problems.

I'm almost certainly over-thinking it That's proving to be the most fun of this entire process.

But, from a design standpoint, wouldn't I want the consistency of each spot moving cleanly to 60% at the same time? My real argument for mechanical dimming isn't so much op replacement as it's consistent intensity control without color shifting. I'm really not questioning my op pool's talent so much as the reliability of manual dowsers in general.

Thanks to both of you for the quick and very useful feedback, too. Both are well taken points - maybe I shouldn't gamble with thousands of dollars on a hunch.

 

[SteveB]

Probably the most typical inconsistency I see is during blackouts and fade outs of all lighting, including spots.

That's when the SM calls the BO and one of the spots is a 1/2 sec. late and it's noticeable. But 95% of my events are one off's and often have nobody really doing a good job calling, with me as LD and I don't know the show and the timing either. In that scenario, I as console operator may well have my hands (and brain) too involved to get to the fader to get the spots restored, so for every great blackout, I miss a few restores. In this scenario, I trust my spot op's and they never let me down and pretty much always do a better job of everything else they do that my having control of intensity would probably be a mistake. One thing a good operator knows how to do is ghost in the light to find the beam (and we use TelRads), then come up to full once they are fully on the target. You can't do that with a remote fader.

For events that are running day after day I used to find the op's learned the timing just fine and never needed a remote fader.

One suggestion would be to contact the LD and/or Head Elec. at an opera company running in rep. Santa Fe Opera comes to mind (as does the met in NYC). I believe Santa Fe has 5 RJ incandesent's with remote capability, not sure if they use it or not.

 

[icewolf08]

But, from a design standpoint, wouldn't I want the consistency of each spot moving cleanly to 60% at the same time? My real argument for mechanical dimming isn't so much op replacement as it's consistent intensity control without color shifting. I'm really not questioning my op pool's talent so much as the reliability of manual dowsers in general.

With a discharge fixture and a dowser you will never have color shift. It doesn't matter if the dowser is controlled by the board or the operator.

I would not want to have spots under board control. What do you do if an actor misses a cue or if have your conventional rig dies in the middle of a scene? Your ops should have control. If you are worried about the ops making their cues and having them look the same each show then you need better ops!

 

[len]

I can understand the lack of uniformity. My daughter's fashion show had 4 spots and they were all out of sync quite often.

I remembered seeing a couple other dmx spots.

Products » Followspot 1200 | CHAUVET® Lighting

I thot Elation made one, but it appears to be discontinued.

 

[derekleffew]

...Possibly this is one of the reasons few spot manufacturers make DMX controlled dowsers - no call for them. I know that Lycian had contemplated them for the 1200 series xenon spots, ...

I vaguely recall an article in Theatre Crafts or Lighting Dimensions in the '80s. Strong Electric, I think, was experimenting with LCD panels (like the clear windows that become opaque) for use as a douser or diffuser. This technology has yet to make it into our automated fixtures, probably for good reason.

...But, from a design standpoint, wouldn't I want the consistency of each spot moving cleanly to 60% at the same time? ...

Not if the fixture is pointing at the ceiling or the orchestra pit, or if the actor is not there, or drops a line, or any number of other scenarios where a spot op can cover for the mistakes of an SM or board op.

To all: Note the difference between wiki: douser and wiki: dowser, even if Lycian, Wybron, and RJ don't.