Control/Dimming DMX to CD-80 control?

shiben

shiben

Well-Known Member
At our college, we began renovating our main concert hall. It is getting a full new dimming system by ETC. However, we now have a 120 channel CD-80 rack sitting around. We have a gym that has 10 or more events per year in it, and we would like to include a theatrical system in the facility. Currently, we only have 2 follow spots that can be used in the space. There are 2 200A company switches located at one end of the facility, right next to a closet that would be used to house the dimmers (the power from the switches would be re-routed, or we would install a new main power feed, depending on budget). We would like to use part of our old CD-80 rack to put dimming into the gym. I would figure a FoH pipe with 12 channels, and 2 over stage pipes with 12 channels each, so around 36 channels. Nothing very fancy, but something functional for lectures, conferences, etc. Can you convert a CD-80 rack to DMX for not a lot of money? We know of a full overhaul which would run around 30k, we were hoping for much less than that. Thanks for your help.
 
What CD-80 rack is it? It will say on the control module.

The Johnson Systems upgrade is a great way to go. I think it runs about 10k, though I could be way off on that.

Heres another option, legality permitting. Sell all the dimmers on ebay or "insert gear reseller here". People are always looking for CD80 modules. Buy some ETC smartbars or even CD80 packs. It costs a good amount of money to install an entire rack just for 30 circuits. IGBT dimmers are pretty solid and great if you just need a handful of circuits in a given area.
 
We considered selling them, but the theater company needed them, and so we arranged a gear transfer, which left us with 36 of the units left, and the rack and other associated hardware. How much are we looking at to install the entire rig? Money is pretty tight right now, and so really any expense is frowned upon (its extended to new lamps and gel, which is becoming obnoxious). If we can use something that we have, then that is what is going to get used. Keep in mind that the instal would be done by college staff (we have 3 full time Master Electricians (not for the theater, they are sparks)), and any cable would probably come out of the large inventory of cable we already have.
 
coldnorth57 said:
I am sorry but are not all CD-80 systems DMX compatable????
http://www.strandlighting.com/clientuploads/directory/downloads/CD80SV.pdf
Click to expand...

The AMX racks are not without swapping out hardware. Most of the AMX racks controller cards and fans have long since perished.

The real money will come from installing all of the conduit and pulling the copper. A lot of copper has to be pulled, each run needs its own neutral. I would get a person familiur with the CD-80 racks in there to help you guys get it going. If you have a liscened electrcian doing all the hot work that is great, go for it. But, wiring a dimmer rack is a completly different beast then wiring a house/building. Also, what do you intend on doing for raceways? Even if you just terminated in SSRC boxes, its not going to be cheap. I don't think you will be able to get it in and working for under 10k.
 
coldnorth57 said:
I am sorry but are not all CD-80 systems DMX compatable????
Click to expand...

The original 1980's CD-80 racks predated the development of DMX, and instead used AMX for control (a pulsed analog voltage signal). After DMX came about, retrofit kits were made available to rebrain the racks and convert them to the new standard. Other things were usually upgraded as well, such as fan speed control and architectural wall panel controls. Other than some minor metalwork variations, all CD-80 upgrades work in all CD-80 racks, regardless of vintage. As noted above, very, very few AMX brains are still in use. The format didn't lend itself to large numbers of channels without a noticeable time lag, and the circuit boards themselves became flakey after ten or fifteen years of use. Most older CD-80 racks have been upconverted at least once, if not twice, since installation. I only have two AMX systems left in my area, and one of those is hard-wired touring packs, not the floor/wall rack.

Rebraining, either by Strand or by Johnson, will run you between $8,000 and $12,000 a rack. Nearly all of that is parts cost, labor is only an hour or two to physically swap the modules, barring other problems.

There is something of a market for complete racks, so you might want to check into that before selling off the rest of the modules. You mentioned another department taking some of the modules - do you have blank modules to replace them with, and maintain cooling airflow?
 
FatherMurphy said:
You mentioned another department taking some of the modules - do you have blank modules to replace them with, and maintain cooling airflow?
Click to expand...

If you are missing that many dimmers it is often easier to have a piece of sheet metal made for about 60-80 bucks and remove the empty trays to maintain the airflow. At least you will have alot of spare conenctors and pins for the dimmer racks side if you should ever burn a socket.
 
Thanks for the info guys. The rack is an AMX control system, it has been installed in the facility since the early to mid-80s (not sure of the exact date), and has been working really well for us. I had heard of a simple card replacement that would deal with out main issue of having some lights come to full when the console was powered down, but other than that, the dimmers have been great. To answer some questions presented: raceways from the closet to the electrics would probably 3 or 4 inch EMT (or however it needed to be, thats for the spark to decide really), and we have a large amount of copper sitting around (we just built a large new facility, and have a lot of spare wire sitting around that the electrical installer didnt use or something). We have an AMX to DMX converter, so would that be the best option to use? Thanks for the help!
 
I wanted to chime in on this one if I could.

CD-80 can range from about 20 years +++. I would honestly say that you should move the rack to the gym. You own most of the equipment already, USE IT.

The best thing for you to do is to upgrade the processor to a C21 processor. We have a retro-fit kit that would be perfect for you case.

Kit part number: 76698-0004
Kit includes the following:
CD80/CD80AE Retrofit Kit - Includes: (1) C21 96-Output Rack Processor Housing, wired for Single Electronics, (1) CD80/CD80AE Interface PCB, (1) 96-Output Rack Processor Module, (1) 76695-0003 Architectural Power Supply Kit, New Fan Assembly.

This option would allow you to keep your old modules, dust them off, and have basically a new rack with all new electronics, and then you can run it off DMX. Smartest move to me.
 
shiben said:
...raceways from the closet to the electrics would probably 3 or 4 inch EMT ...
Click to expand...
You shouldn't need conduit as large as 3-4" for 12 Circuits from the dimmer rack to each of three lighting positions, and that size pipe gets expensive quick, both in labor and materials. You might need Borderlight cable for the two over-stage Electrics if they are movable, and this entails some sort of cable management system. By raceways, Footer meant Connector Strips. Plug Boxes may be less expensive, although not as convenient. You might consider putting some constant power 120V and/or 208V outlets, as well as DMX/Ethernet outlets, at your lighting locations as well.

Does the "closet" contain appropriate HVAC and fire suppression to support a dimmer rack? What else would need to be done to classify it from a closet to an electrical room?

shiben said:
...We have an AMX to DMX converter, so would that be the best option to use? ...
Click to expand...
Protocol converters are always spec'd as <what the console outputs> to <what the dimmers want>, so do you really have an AMX to DMX converter?

rschwimmer said:
...We have a retro-fit kit that would be perfect for your case. ...
Click to expand...
How does this compare, in price and features, to the Johnson Systems CD2000?
 
derekleffew said:
How does this compare, in price and features, to the Johnson Systems CD2000?
Click to expand...


This is a close to comparable item. I have been told (I have not actually seen a rack upgraded with this) that the Johnson Systems conversion works as an upgrade. The upgrade to C21 and the CD2000 are very comparable. There are going to be a few different advantages with the C21 upgrade. One big advantage will be the configuration of the ports. With Johnson you are limited with DMX controls.

I don't know the price difference because I am not in that area to know what our Retro-fit goes for. I also don't know how much the CD2000 kit runs for either.

It really is going to come down to what they want to accomplish with moving of the rack. If they want the rack to stay all Strand, then our kit will be best. But if not, then I would assume the Johnson's kit would work OK.
 
derekleffew, thanks for pointing that out, never knew thats how it was labeled. We would probably put in some form of outlet strips, especially if Physical Plant has some that are rated high enough on hand. The electrics wont be moving, so thats not a problem. The closet already has the proper gear in it, as it has the main breaker panel for half the building, some pumps and HVAC equipment in it already. We will check out and price out both possible upgrades.
 
rschwimmer said:
This is a close to comparable item. I have been told (I have not actually seen a rack upgraded with this) that the Johnson Systems conversion works as an upgrade. The upgrade to C21 and the CD2000 are very comparable. There are going to be a few different advantages with the C21 upgrade. One big advantage will be the configuration of the ports. With Johnson you are limited with DMX controls.
Click to expand...

CD2000 - two dedicated DMX's, CS-2800 ports (these are system mangement stations that can snapshot DMX like SWC on the Strand SV side), 16 analogs in, 128 channels of generated DMX out (this is diferent than thru as these are addressable). Johnson Systems Inc.

You also will not compromise the coolling of the dimmer rack (multi-rack installs or racks with disconnects to the side of them) with CD-2000 or have issues with hitting buss bars. In fact you will get a massive dust cloud when the CD-2000 first powers on as more air is moved through the dimmer stack. The buss bar clearance can be a real issue and is a big reason why NBC Burbank studios chose the CD-2000 to upgrade over 50 CD-80's and their CD-90's.
 
Darthrob13 said:
First install was around 1977...so adjusting for pi, the CD-80 has been around for over 30 years.

Sick.
Click to expand...


I have to agree. I was discussing with Patrick yesterday, and he was thinking the first one was in the mid 80's, so that is some pretty cool stuff that we were rocking it during the seventies!

Dimmer.com:

I would have to say that both upgrades will have their advantages. Its all a matter of opinion, and what range of money the client wants to spend. When all is said and done, whether he gets the Johnson System's, or the C21 upgrade, it is, and always will be a Strand Dimmer Rack! And that is all that matters!!!:)
 
Yes, it is branded Strand Century. I have notified the appropriate bean counters of the options and the slow gears of spending money have been put in motion, I will let everyone know if this goes anywhere, it might be rather fast due to future use of the facility.
 
I have used both the CD2000 upgrade and the C21 upgrade for CD-80's. The CD2000 upgrade does what it needs to do. It does have a few frills such as wall station support. The C21 upgrade does have some nice features as well. Shownet support is great (Is it ACN Yet?). Also, you get a login to the actual rack to detect errors, etc. All in all, both do the same thing, it just depends on what you need.

I would like to add though, if you have an issue with the Johnson Systems stuff, its a call and shipping to Canada to get it fixed. I had a part out for over a month and a half without a spare a few months ago.
 
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