Ellipsoidal and batons
- Thread starterLou9x9
- Start date
I might bring up that they should attempt to use the right tool for the right job. Also, by doing this they are tying up equipment that could be more effectively used elsewhere. That being said, I often find that I have to do one of my top floods with s4's and I find that I don't quite get the look that I want with that color so I am always sure to make it the least used color in my design. I'm sure someone will be by to give you a more technical argument, but for me it is largely a matter of not wanting to run out of fixtures and personal preference.
I assume you mean they are using them as top floods or downlight as opposed to upstage acting area front light? It would probably frustrate me as well to see leko's used as floods when there are better alternatives.
Some fights ya just can't win, so pick your battles wisely. What is their reasoning for the choice? What is the throw distance and what degree ellipsoidals?
Some fights ya just can't win, so pick your battles wisely. What is their reasoning for the choice? What is the throw distance and what degree ellipsoidals?
phenry
Active Member
I would go the route of cost and lamp hours.
Pars have a better lamp life.
As you don’t mention what ellipsoidal or lamp you are using, lamp cost can kind of wash depending on brand and dealer, so check with whomever you buy lamps from.
Depending on the degree of ellipsoidal you are using and the positioning, you may be able to replace two with a single WFL par 64.
There are also design aesthetics you can go with, but those are subjective so it is an easily lost argument.
Pars have a better lamp life.
As you don’t mention what ellipsoidal or lamp you are using, lamp cost can kind of wash depending on brand and dealer, so check with whomever you buy lamps from.
Depending on the degree of ellipsoidal you are using and the positioning, you may be able to replace two with a single WFL par 64.
There are also design aesthetics you can go with, but those are subjective so it is an easily lost argument.
JLNorthGA
Active Member
I won't argue about Fresnels versus PAR cans - I don't know enough about PAR cans.
However - if they aren't using a 70 degree or a 50 degree ellipsoidal - they are sort of wasting an instrument. I would tell them to do the math. A $110 6" 65Q Fresnel or a $318 Source Four (or $430 Source Four). It all depends what you have in stock. If they are just using 19, 26 and 36 degree - they really aren't using those instrument to their potential. Are they using the ellipsoidals because there are no other alternatives present in house?
That being said - if they are using the instruments for specific effects - then why not? You can put a barn door on a Fresnel - but you really don't get a clean edge - you get some spill. If you use shutters on an ellipsoidal you can mask a lot better. For general wash - give me a 65Q.
However - if they aren't using a 70 degree or a 50 degree ellipsoidal - they are sort of wasting an instrument. I would tell them to do the math. A $110 6" 65Q Fresnel or a $318 Source Four (or $430 Source Four). It all depends what you have in stock. If they are just using 19, 26 and 36 degree - they really aren't using those instrument to their potential. Are they using the ellipsoidals because there are no other alternatives present in house?
That being said - if they are using the instruments for specific effects - then why not? You can put a barn door on a Fresnel - but you really don't get a clean edge - you get some spill. If you use shutters on an ellipsoidal you can mask a lot better. For general wash - give me a 65Q.
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Here's something to consider- While you might consider it lame, you also need to ask "Does it get the job done?" The reason for ellipsoidal fixtures are used primarily for front of house positions and not as floods is that they are much easier to fine tune their placement, using sharp edges, shutter cuts, etc. And their ability to accept gobos. But they can totally be used as for floods. I've done it when other instruments haven't been available. The beam shape is a bit different, but really, the main drawback is you are using a 300 dollar instrument to do something a 150 dollar instrument does just as well. The ability to take gobos and use shutters makes them more versatile, but to an extent, a light is a light.
The question to ask is- do you have unused fresnels or par cans that could be placed there, freeing up the ellipsoidals to do things that only ellipsoidals can do elsewhere? Do you have a need or would you use the ellipsoidals if they were elsewhere?
I don't want to discourage you, but there is an approach of "It it ain't broke, don't fix it". You don't want to burn up a lot of goodwill getting something changed that ultimately doesn't really give you any improvements or flexibility or a cool look for a scene that you just don't have enough instruments for unless you swap things out. But if you can point out that changing this would give you a second color front wash, or be more efficient with instruments, or something concrete that benefits everyone, then you might have some traction. But just saying you should change it because it's not how it's commonly done is only going to annoy folks working there.
The question to ask is- do you have unused fresnels or par cans that could be placed there, freeing up the ellipsoidals to do things that only ellipsoidals can do elsewhere? Do you have a need or would you use the ellipsoidals if they were elsewhere?
I don't want to discourage you, but there is an approach of "It it ain't broke, don't fix it". You don't want to burn up a lot of goodwill getting something changed that ultimately doesn't really give you any improvements or flexibility or a cool look for a scene that you just don't have enough instruments for unless you swap things out. But if you can point out that changing this would give you a second color front wash, or be more efficient with instruments, or something concrete that benefits everyone, then you might have some traction. But just saying you should change it because it's not how it's commonly done is only going to annoy folks working there.
A. It's batten. Not baton (or Baton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )
B. If you have a working, adequate fixture hanging from a position, and you don't need that fixture somewhere else, why move it? It costs time, effort, safety, etc., to move a fixture. Granted, if you've got 10 pars/fresnels, etc. laying around doing nothing, ok, but as has been said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
B. If you have a working, adequate fixture hanging from a position, and you don't need that fixture somewhere else, why move it? It costs time, effort, safety, etc., to move a fixture. Granted, if you've got 10 pars/fresnels, etc. laying around doing nothing, ok, but as has been said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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As with the above, if they want to use a specific fixture for a purpose... it is their design and wash your hands if you have sufficient fixtures available to fill their needs. Only difference I could think of would be in lamp cost and depends on what specific lamps you are using in each of the fixture choice you have provided for option. Indeed, might even be a color temperature thing in if you upgrade to BTH lamps, will this solve the problem? This in solving it for you artistically on someone else's design in matching color temperature, but now doing nothing in savings for say a long life lamp if your Leko's are high output.
Again the details about the lamps in use would be the only management why concept you have a leg to stand on. Can educate but not fight too much someone else's requirements for their art as long as you have sufficient fixtures in stock to meet their needs. They want a Leko in place for a Fresnel..., I remember my high school often walking about the room in singing "Oh' Lord, it's art be humble". Any TD walking about the shop in singing that will get attention especially if you than walk away.
Walk away if all good in not being a paying more in lamp life issue that isn't covered in the rental for differing prices for fixture types in use. I'm sure you have bigger fish to fry at some point in "Accepting what you cannot change"... something religious in dime store picture frame I bought years ago for Grahm that has more advice following it and or more fill in the blank one could add. I later brought it home for my wife that has a problem with getting emotionally involved with work. We all make great strives and do great things professionally, but for some of it, it takes time and years in just the little things or waiting out etc. after trying some. Look for instance how long it took for an anti-FEL lamp concept to really take hold.
Heck... took one of our lamp buyers like 14 years in me supplying their lamps to finally start specifying what specific lamp type they wanted to buy. But they are doing so now and all is wonderful. That much less where I work we constantly buy the newest and most modern of moving light fixtures in bulk in combination with designer wanting to use it and management also wondered by it in making everything else in stock obsolete. Than sets in the reality of the lamps in use, fixture problems etc. over the next year or two - you bought heavily into it type of way and are now stuck with it.
If of any help, would love to help educate in changing from Leko to Fresnel - perhaps even strip light might help in some situation, but in the end it is the designer's wants and that is what we are there to supply. As long as it don't effect lamp budget in fixture rental, and that education is long term, would recommend just going with it.
Again the details about the lamps in use would be the only management why concept you have a leg to stand on. Can educate but not fight too much someone else's requirements for their art as long as you have sufficient fixtures in stock to meet their needs. They want a Leko in place for a Fresnel..., I remember my high school often walking about the room in singing "Oh' Lord, it's art be humble". Any TD walking about the shop in singing that will get attention especially if you than walk away.
Walk away if all good in not being a paying more in lamp life issue that isn't covered in the rental for differing prices for fixture types in use. I'm sure you have bigger fish to fry at some point in "Accepting what you cannot change"... something religious in dime store picture frame I bought years ago for Grahm that has more advice following it and or more fill in the blank one could add. I later brought it home for my wife that has a problem with getting emotionally involved with work. We all make great strives and do great things professionally, but for some of it, it takes time and years in just the little things or waiting out etc. after trying some. Look for instance how long it took for an anti-FEL lamp concept to really take hold.
Heck... took one of our lamp buyers like 14 years in me supplying their lamps to finally start specifying what specific lamp type they wanted to buy. But they are doing so now and all is wonderful. That much less where I work we constantly buy the newest and most modern of moving light fixtures in bulk in combination with designer wanting to use it and management also wondered by it in making everything else in stock obsolete. Than sets in the reality of the lamps in use, fixture problems etc. over the next year or two - you bought heavily into it type of way and are now stuck with it.
If of any help, would love to help educate in changing from Leko to Fresnel - perhaps even strip light might help in some situation, but in the end it is the designer's wants and that is what we are there to supply. As long as it don't effect lamp budget in fixture rental, and that education is long term, would recommend just going with it.
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