ETC Colorsource PAR vs Chauvet Rogue R1 Wash

[MikeJ]

The R1 Washes will *only* be providing you a circular beam of light though, so if you need oval filtering, you're probably going to have to stick in static PAR-land.

Or and as stated, go ETC, whose LED Pars offer a lot of assorted round and oval lenses.

You know, I never really considered the oval beam of a Par to be a feature. I always considered it to be a natural artifact of the lens and filament shape, an not necessarily a desirable one. The MFL and WFL S4 has a less defined "bottle" than a par 64, and to me that was always a good thing, VN, and VNSP in S4 are circular, simple because of the shape of the HPL lamp compared to the long filament of a PAR 64.

 

[TJCornish]

TJ, sorry for all the confusion, I can see where I am being less then specific and helpful.

When I question the value of a ColorSource for your intended use, I am of course making a judgement call based on my own experience, which is not at all useful to you.

I know how much punch I get out of my wide flood S4 Pars at 750 watts at +20ft. I see that every day in my space so I'm familiar with that fixture at that throw with that lens and field size. I can see that a ColorSource is not going to give me the same intensity at the same throw with a lens matched to the same field size. My very subjective judgment tells me that in the smaller theater where we use ETC LED Pars, they are about the same intensity as a 6" fresnel at 750 watts, when the ColorSource is using the wide round lens, which is supposed to be about a 70 deg. spread. Thus for my use in the larger theater I would spec. a Desire and probably a D60 as too much intensity can be dimmed where as you cannot get more light out of a fixture then what it comes with.

Thus the best answer for you is to do a real side-by-side test, unit next to unit against what you already use, but in general and as I look at the spec's and price of the Chauvet R1, that is the fixture I would go for in your application due to the fact that it moves and zooms. That's probably going to be a huge time saver over a static fixture and will have many additional uses besides a face light front light on a truss. Consider the issue you can encounter frequently when the rig is up, the client makes a major change and getting a Genie out or lowering the truss a few times for focus is difficult. Having a mover with zoom is huge advantage.

From what I'm seeing on assorted spec. sheets, the Chauvet has pretty good punch as compared to a ColorSource, when zoomed in, but like all units loses intensity quickly when you go full zoom out. My Aura's do the same, FWIW.

But the bottom line is color and how it reads on faces, if you follow your original stated intent as a truss front light for corporate events. ETC is known for the best color out of their LED's especially for "other then R&R saturated" colors. Not sure you'd get the same refinement out of a Chauvet and I know I cannot get the range of the ColorSource from my Aura's.

@ ETC in general. You guys really need to be putting the ColorSource and Desire Pars into a zoomable and moving head unit. You own the color part, what's missing big time is the moving and zooming.

Thanks Steve, I appreciate your experiences.

 

[TJCornish]

If you are currently using Slimpar Pros as a front wash, then the R1 will be a very good improvement in, output, color quality, and versatility. I have used Slimpar pros for just about everything, but now they are pretty much just used as truss toners, or uplights(when I can't have WELLS). The R1 wash, as far as output and coverage area will easily replace 2 slim pars for wash purposes. If you are using these to replace the SlimPars, then I think you will be pretty happy with them. The R2 wash does offer almost triple the LED's, but a lot of times more smaller fixtures is better than less big ones. For corporate flash, a US row of 10 R1 wash for ballys and chases during award presentations or walkups, will look more impressive than 6 R2's. Output does not make that much difference but more fixtures gives effect shapes and chases more impact and definition.

You can always add R2's to your inventory later, if you feel more output is needed, and the R1's can still be used add a ton of value to an event for decor and effect lighting.
You should try to get a demo of both though, It might make sense to get some of each. Find a local Chauvet dealer on the website, and give them a call. If they don't have any in stock their Chauvet rep can ship them some demo units, so you can take a look in person.

So, here is my further rambling argument for movers over Static pars.

Even if you only have say 8 units as a stage wash replacing SlimPars, a lot of times you can leave 2 on the presenter, then still use the other 6 as a bally for an award walk-up, and have them settle into a full stage wash as soon as the recipient gets to the stage. This setup is faster, because you focus from the board, looks a ton better on stage than slimpars, and being able to do effects and decor lighting during dinner or cocktails, adds a lot of value to your services compared to using static pars. Corporate clients don't have any Idea about Brands, model number or CRI; they want the end product to meet their vision for an event, and they could care less what tools you use to accomplish that.

For my money, and for your application, I think that the R1/R2 offers much better ROI than a ColorSource Par, simply because its a versatile product. Most clients don't know 3200k from 5600k, or between a SlimPar Pro and a ColorSource Par, but they understand that one product lets you light the stage, and the other one lets you light the stage, and light the ceiling, and do ballyhoos and a bunch of other cool stuff.

When comparing the difference in color rendering between The ColorSource and a Rogue, yes CRI is measurable, and I don't know what it is on either one, but in reality and practical use, its subjective. The quality of the Rogue washes is very good, I would not hesitate to use them for most small to medium corporate events for a stage wash, and for rock and roll, no problems at all.

As far as the comment about ETC making a moving head LED, I don't know why they have not entered that market, but I don't like the look of either the ColorSource or the Desire as a mover.
Right now, Individual circle lenses on the face of an LED like the ColorSource, are a non-starter, look at the Rogue and Aura, both have lens segments between the circles for a much more unified look,
and the Christmas tree light face on the D series are reminiscent of first gen DJ moving lights; It would look like a joke.

Thanks Mike. I'm glad you're familiar with the SlimPar Pros - that's a super helpful datapoint.

I only use the SlimPAR Pros as primary white for very small events when it's the only choice. Normally some 575w S4 lekos do that job, however they are physically large and only one beam angle, so I have to stock two sets of lights for long/short throw and deal with external dimmers. Going to a variable angle par-style fixture for general wash (still need the lekos for gobo projection and shuttering sometimes) will save a lot of space and be significantly more flexible.

I'm glad to hear the R1 is ~2x the output of the SlimPAR Pro, and that's approximately what my chart shows (which means my conversions may actually be worth something) and also that it can make a better white. I'm still on the fence about the R1/R2. As I mentioned, the 575w S4 level is usually too bright, so I don't need the full output of the R2 (assuming my numbers are right), but I may be able to replace more than 1:1 with the R2, where the R1 might be more of a fixture to fixture replacement of what I currently have.

Fixture cost matters of course, but looking at the longer view, R2 fixtures may cost me less in the long run if I can use them to replace more stuff.

Thanks for the thoughts!

 

[JohnD]

As far as the comment about ETC making a moving head LED, I don't know why they have not entered that market, but I don't like the look of either the ColorSource or the Desire as a mover.
Right now, Individual circle lenses on the face of an LED like the ColorSource, are a non-starter, look at the Rogue and Aura, both have lens segments between the circles for a much more unified look,
and the Christmas tree light face on the D series are reminiscent of first gen DJ moving lights; It would look like a joke.

It seems they are moving in the moving light direction:

http://www.etcconnect.com/Careers/Automated-Lighting.aspx

 

[TJCornish]

Posting a followup - I am now the owner of some Chauvet Rogue R2 Wash fixtures. Thanks to all who responded here and also to @Ford for his information and help getting product in time for my show.

I'm glad I went with the R2 fixtures - I think the R1s wouldn't have been bright enough or as flexible, and I actually had a lot of fun with the pixel-mapping features of the R2.

The show I used them for was a youth event with not a lot of time to program as I was actually on stage performing, so after doing the initial setup, I handed the reigns over to someone else to operate the board. I have more shows coming up where I'll be able to be more intentional with programming, but for this show, they were perfect.

I used them as front wash, and found that with my board (ETC SmartFade ML), the fixture's 3000K preset looked better than what I could mix (SmartFade ML doesn't have an RGBW color model, so I used RGB and put the W on a color wheel channel). I was very happy with the color quality. I'm sure it's not Selecon-quality, but for my R&R-type purposes, it looked great.

The other use was for walk-in ballying and for the dance party part of the event. Due to very limited programming time, I relied on the internal color macros. They were really helpful to have, and made for a lot of fun with pretty minimal programming effort.

I'm really glad I went this way rather than a non-mover PAR fixture. The price of these fixtures is very reasonable for what they do. Hopefully I can grab another batch of these in the future.

When life calms down I will do a shootout of the fixtures I have access to for a comparison.

 

[Ford]

I'm glad they worked out for you TJ!

I'd love to see the shootout data when you have the time.

-Ford

 

[TJCornish]

Will do. My only complaint was the "Omega" bracket doesn't accommodate the standard 3/4" bolt head of the Light Source Mega Claw clamps I use. The hole size is fine, but the milling of the Omega bracket doesn't allow for the head of the bolt to turn, so I had to machine them a bit to make it work. It would be great to get that minor thing changed.

 

[MikeJ]

Will do. My only complaint was the "Omega" bracket doesn't accommodate the standard 3/4" bolt head of the Light Source Mega Claw clamps I use. The hole size is fine, but the milling of the Omega bracket doesn't allow for the head of the bolt to turn, so I had to machine them a bit to make it work. It would be great to get that minor thing changed.

Yeah, that fact that the bolt head is "locked" into the bracket is annoying. I use Mini-claws on these and with the...whatever the dome shaped washer is called, I can get them tight, but they are a pain to change if you need to rotate the clamp 90 degrees.

One side note, If you want to hang these on a vertical pipe/truss, make sure you orient the omega bracket so it is vertical. While I don't think this is a published, it seems that there is a lot of stress on the receivers on the fixture of you have them horizontal, and they will sag a uncomfortable amount.

The washers on TheLightSource clamps with the fancy washer, have enough give to be tightened 90 degrees tighter/from the "normal"position, them back without any problem. I have hung them on a vertical truss in the horizntal position, then just twisted the fixture 90, and it worked out good. A little annoying though.

All things considered, Its a great fixture, and reliability has been really good for me. I hope you get some good use out of them.

@Ford It would be nice if the head of a bolt could spin freely in the omega brackets, just enough to fit a standard socket over the bolt head. This is really the only problem I have with the fixture.

 

[Pie4Weebl]

Yeah, that fact that the bolt head is "locked" into the bracket is annoying. I use Mini-claws on these and with the...whatever the dome shaped washer is called, I can get them tight, but they are a pain to change if you need to rotate the clamp 90 degrees.

One side note, If you want to hang these on a vertical pipe/truss, make sure you orient the omega bracket so it is vertical. While I don't think this is a published, it seems that there is a lot of stress on the receivers on the fixture of you have them horizontal, and they will sag a uncomfortable amount.

Good looking out on that. Ditto your complaint on the bracket, if you try and use the chauvet clamp you end up with "cut" hardware on both sides which makes it hard to get it right where you want.