ETC unveils new Element™ lighting control consoles, USITT 2009
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This is from BMI's blog found here:
We just got word that ETC has released pricing for the new Element Console! BMI Supply Proudly Offers The Following Prices:
Contact your sales manager for package pricing!
Element 40, 250 Channels … … … $ 4,087.50
Element 40, 500 Channels … … … $ 4,462.50
Element 60, 250 Channels … … … $ 5,062.50
Element 60, 500 Channels … … … $ 5,437.50
In conjunction with the release of the new pricing ETC has announced that all ION consoles will now be priced on application. According to ETC’s most recent news: “Ion pricing is also increasing significantly…”. All of these ION changes begin July 1st.
ION pricing good until July 1st 2009
ETC ION 1000 … … … … … … … … … … … … $ 5,062.50
ETC Universal Fader Wing 2x10 … … … … … $ 900.00
ETC Universal Fader Wing 2x20… … … … … $ 1,725.00
ETC Net3 Radio Focus Remote … … … … … $ 1,875.00
If you were thinking about purchasing an ION now is the time.
We just got word that ETC has released pricing for the new Element Console! BMI Supply Proudly Offers The Following Prices:
Contact your sales manager for package pricing!
Element 40, 250 Channels … … … $ 4,087.50
Element 40, 500 Channels … … … $ 4,462.50
Element 60, 250 Channels … … … $ 5,062.50
Element 60, 500 Channels … … … $ 5,437.50
In conjunction with the release of the new pricing ETC has announced that all ION consoles will now be priced on application. According to ETC’s most recent news: “Ion pricing is also increasing significantly…”. All of these ION changes begin July 1st.
ION pricing good until July 1st 2009
ETC ION 1000 … … … … … … … … … … … … $ 5,062.50
ETC Universal Fader Wing 2x10 … … … … … $ 900.00
ETC Universal Fader Wing 2x20… … … … … $ 1,725.00
ETC Net3 Radio Focus Remote … … … … … $ 1,875.00
If you were thinking about purchasing an ION now is the time.
llecount
Member
This may have been covered already, so forgive me if it has been..
Will the Net3 Radio Focus Remote be compatible with the Element? ETC's website says it's only compatible with the Ion, EOS and Congo line.. didn't know if anyone here had heard anything about the Element being added to that list too.
Will the Net3 Radio Focus Remote be compatible with the Element? ETC's website says it's only compatible with the Ion, EOS and Congo line.. didn't know if anyone here had heard anything about the Element being added to that list too.
jmabray
Active Member
I have no way of knowing for sure, but I would imagine that it would be compatible with the Element. The software for all 3 consoles (EOS, ION, Element) have the same basis.
I don't think that they would make another different Remote Focus Unit for this desk, but then again I have been wrong before....
I don't think that they would make another different Remote Focus Unit for this desk, but then again I have been wrong before....
jmabray
Active Member
It's exactly what it sounds like it is... A list of your cues - usually in the order in which they are run.
Lets say you have a straight play with an interior box set and a huge picture window upstage center.
Now over the course of Act 1 you want the sky visible in that picture window to go from late afternoon to early evening - a sunset, if you will. That is easily accomplished with a cue that lasts the entirety of the act, right?
Ok, now in addition to that, you have several entrances and practicals on stage turning on and off through the course of the act. You can easily do that with cues on your lightboard as well, right? But if you are already doing the sunset cue, it can cause some problems.
The easiest way to handle this is with multiple cue lists. Cue list 1 is your lights up/lights down/entrance/exit cue list and cue list 2 is your sunset cue. They are both running at the same time. And since you probably won't have the same fixtures in both lists, you won't have any problem.
Does that make sense?
Lets say you have a straight play with an interior box set and a huge picture window upstage center.
Now over the course of Act 1 you want the sky visible in that picture window to go from late afternoon to early evening - a sunset, if you will. That is easily accomplished with a cue that lasts the entirety of the act, right?
Ok, now in addition to that, you have several entrances and practicals on stage turning on and off through the course of the act. You can easily do that with cues on your lightboard as well, right? But if you are already doing the sunset cue, it can cause some problems.
The easiest way to handle this is with multiple cue lists. Cue list 1 is your lights up/lights down/entrance/exit cue list and cue list 2 is your sunset cue. They are both running at the same time. And since you probably won't have the same fixtures in both lists, you won't have any problem.
Does that make sense?
Your example here isn't exactly true. On most tracking consoles (Eos, Ion, Element, Obsession, Strand 300/500/Palette/LP) you can have multiple cues running concurrently from one cue stack. So you could run your 30 minute sunrise cue and then run subsequent cues on top of it as long as no subsequent cue has commands for the channels that make the sunrise. I believe this is called "Move-fade." These consoles allow you to run multiple cues on top of eachother on the same fader pair/GO button. Usually this works as an LTP operation, so the latest cue that has a command for a channel with have priority for that channel.
On consoles like Express(ion) and Leviton/NSI models, they are inherently "cue-only" consoles (even if you use the TRACK button). Each cue functions as an "All-Fade" or block cue, so every channel is commanded in each cue. Thus why you have two fader pairs so that you could run a long cue or subroutine on one while running other cues on the other.
Since I have worked primarily on Obsession II and Strand 300/500 consoles I have not yet found a real need for multiple cue lists. I am sure that if I had that option I would find a use for it, but for most theatre situations you probably won't need it (especially in a high school). However, given the sunset example, Element (or any current generation console) would handle it just fine without multiple cue lists.
One of the useful things that you can do with multiple cue lists (at least on the new Strand consoles) is use them as effects. So you can record a separate cue list and then run it like an effect, which I think is very cool in that you don't have to use a separate effects engine and different displays and commands to create an effect. I don't know if you can do this on the new ETC consoles, but it wouldn't surprise me if you can.
jmabray
Active Member
Ice you are absolutely right. However, my example is just one way you can use multiple cue lists. It makes for an easy explanation of the concept is all. It also makes it easier for some users to keep track of what's happening on stage.
Another way to use them - Dance Concerts.
Lets say your high school is hosting a local dance studio recital. During the rehearsal period you have about 20 minutes to see the number and write some basic cues. However, you don't know the exact performance order yet. (Or you are dealing with a director who likes to change that order repeatedly up till opening night) Put each number on it's own cue list. Then you just have to link the lists in whatever order the show actually is going to run.
There are several ways to use the EOS/ION/Element software much like there are several ways to skin a cat....
*No cats were harmed in the writing of this email. (except for mine when he wouldn't get off the keyboard so I could type...)
Another way to use them - Dance Concerts.
Lets say your high school is hosting a local dance studio recital. During the rehearsal period you have about 20 minutes to see the number and write some basic cues. However, you don't know the exact performance order yet. (Or you are dealing with a director who likes to change that order repeatedly up till opening night) Put each number on it's own cue list. Then you just have to link the lists in whatever order the show actually is going to run.
There are several ways to use the EOS/ION/Element software much like there are several ways to skin a cat....
*No cats were harmed in the writing of this email. (except for mine when he wouldn't get off the keyboard so I could type...)
JackMVHS, jmabray has answered your question, and icewolf08 has tried to help him out the hole he dug himself. See the thread http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting/8694-expression-3-c-d-fader-uses.html#post102024 for more examples.
Coming from a theatre lighting background, where cues are written and played back linearly, the idea of multiple cue lists is often a foreign concept. If one looks at concert lighting using moving lights, one can immediately see the benefits. One cuelist can be the "main," perhaps only having intensity and position information. Another may contain only color information, and another only strobe effects. While busking a show, complex color or strobe cues can be played back in any order, mixing and matching as desired. A ballyhoo cue on another list. To stop the bally, just release the list. Go and stop as many times as needed. Another good use is to control the ubiquitous Hazer. In its own cue list, one push of the <Go> turns on the hazer, another <Go> turns it off. Or a cuelist specifically for Houselights would prevent their inadvertent execution, demonstrated here: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...use-lights-recorded-full-into.html#post131396.
One needn't fault the Element for having only one cuelist. It's not intended to run lots of moving lights in a "live" concert setting. As Sarah said in the video, if multiple cuelists are important, the Ion is likely a better fit. But the Element is probably appropriate for at least 90% of the high school market.
Not entirely accurate, at least in the case of Expression 3. From the Expression 3 User Manual v3.1: under LTP Channels:
I've heard this expressed as "128 simultaneous background fades," but that seems contradictory to "Up to 600 cues may run in the background at once." Sarah, Anne?
Coming from a theatre lighting background, where cues are written and played back linearly, the idea of multiple cue lists is often a foreign concept. If one looks at concert lighting using moving lights, one can immediately see the benefits. One cuelist can be the "main," perhaps only having intensity and position information. Another may contain only color information, and another only strobe effects. While busking a show, complex color or strobe cues can be played back in any order, mixing and matching as desired. A ballyhoo cue on another list. To stop the bally, just release the list. Go and stop as many times as needed. Another good use is to control the ubiquitous Hazer. In its own cue list, one push of the <Go> turns on the hazer, another <Go> turns it off. Or a cuelist specifically for Houselights would prevent their inadvertent execution, demonstrated here: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...use-lights-recorded-full-into.html#post131396.
One needn't fault the Element for having only one cuelist. It's not intended to run lots of moving lights in a "live" concert setting. As Sarah said in the video, if multiple cuelists are important, the Ion is likely a better fit. But the Element is probably appropriate for at least 90% of the high school market.
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A typical theatrical cuing console. from the olden days, allowed a single sequential numbering scheme - I.E., you started at 1 (or possibly .5) and sequentially progressed thru the maximum allowable numbers of the console, which might be 999 or so. The analogy I like uses the term "Stack" (which is used by many R&R consoles) similar to airplanes landing at an airport.
Multiple cue lists change this in that you can have a Q1 in Cue List 1, and a Q1 in Cue List 2, etc... with a console such as Eos/Ion having a variety of functions to allow a list to assert and or release controls of channels used in multiple lists.
A clever use, as it was described to me, was a major dance company on tour with a repertory of hundreds of dance pieces. In olden days, some creative accounting had to be accomplished to number the cues, with "Revelations" being on Show 1/Starting Cue 1, "Swing" on Show 5/Starting Cue 101, "Swine Lake" on Show 2/Starting Cue 51, etc.... New'ish consoles (Obsession) had hard drives and could store most of the rep on the HD. Older consoles used floppies and care needed to be taken to keep track of which disk was being recorded to and what was loaded.
With multiple cue lists, ALL the dance pieces cues can start at 1, and you simply name the cue list. Makes life easier for the SM to call as well.
Steve B.
Multiple cue lists change this in that you can have a Q1 in Cue List 1, and a Q1 in Cue List 2, etc... with a console such as Eos/Ion having a variety of functions to allow a list to assert and or release controls of channels used in multiple lists.
A clever use, as it was described to me, was a major dance company on tour with a repertory of hundreds of dance pieces. In olden days, some creative accounting had to be accomplished to number the cues, with "Revelations" being on Show 1/Starting Cue 1, "Swing" on Show 5/Starting Cue 101, "Swine Lake" on Show 2/Starting Cue 51, etc.... New'ish consoles (Obsession) had hard drives and could store most of the rep on the HD. Older consoles used floppies and care needed to be taken to keep track of which disk was being recorded to and what was loaded.
With multiple cue lists, ALL the dance pieces cues can start at 1, and you simply name the cue list. Makes life easier for the SM to call as well.
Steve B.
So, I just got the OK to order an Element for our high school theater to replace our Colortran Innovator 48/96. I sent in the order for a Element 60 Fader, 500 channel with the control software. Jack, I know you are considering the Element. One big thing to note. ETC told my dealer that once you place the order, delivery is sitting at about 75 days out. So, I'm looking at late July or so before I see it.
BJH
BJH
The background fade descriptions for the Express/ion product line was the way the desk dealt with fade-within-fade requirements. The basic nature of a preset desk is that channel destinations (end states) are recalled at each Go command. So, if you were trying to fade a light over a long time frame, each time you pressed the go button, the end state for that light was recalculated and retimed. By adding the LTP background fades, the Express/ion desk was able to accomplish lights fading from different cue commands at the same time.
This isn't needed on a tracking/move fade desk. It is inherently fade-within-fade. So, if a light gets an instruction to fade in cue 1 in 10 counts, as long as cue 2 doesn't give that light a new instruction, it will fade in 10 counts, regardless of when cue 2 is called.
Element does have a single cue list - as did Obsession. This never prohibited Obsession from being used on things like Alvin Ailey, New York City Ballet, etc. As Steve said, if you want each dance number to begin at cue one, you can build a show file for each, and then open the show file between numbers. Since the current output of the desk is held when a file is opened, this is seamless to the audience and the talent.
The design watchword for Element was simplicity!
Hope that helps guys!
Anne Valentino
Eos Product Line Manager
ETC
This isn't needed on a tracking/move fade desk. It is inherently fade-within-fade. So, if a light gets an instruction to fade in cue 1 in 10 counts, as long as cue 2 doesn't give that light a new instruction, it will fade in 10 counts, regardless of when cue 2 is called.
Element does have a single cue list - as did Obsession. This never prohibited Obsession from being used on things like Alvin Ailey, New York City Ballet, etc. As Steve said, if you want each dance number to begin at cue one, you can build a show file for each, and then open the show file between numbers. Since the current output of the desk is held when a file is opened, this is seamless to the audience and the talent.
The design watchword for Element was simplicity!
Hope that helps guys!
Anne Valentino
Eos Product Line Manager
ETC
But to old timers like me, who can recall when it was white knuckle moment dumping the current show for a new file, this was never a great choice. Not to mention the paperwork involved keeping track of what piece is where... Shelly has a chapter on this in his book. My experiences with Emphasis have been that opening new files IS seamless and have never had that white knuckle feeling, and Eos/Ion makes it even easier.
Steve B,
My school (bhallerm's) just ordered an element, which is certainly a step in the right direction, but I was wondering just how that itty-bitty dial to switch between channel pages would work out. Is there a snowballs chance in hell that this will have motorised faders? We have an LS-9 soundboard sporting them (which is just grand for switching through the layers...) and it would make things a tad easier when running in tight situations.
Nope
. Not even that much chance. Flying Faders are expensive! and the goal was to keep the price point of the Element affordable.
