Finding a preferred video format for your space

[Aerial]

Do you list accepted or preferred video formats in your tech specs packets? If so, what are they? This will give me a reference point to go off of for the rest of my issues.

At my venue we host a monthly forum for local filmmakers. They have the opportunity to screen trailers, clips, and short films of their projects. The problem arises that there are multiple films in multiple formats, and some are not compatible with the equipment/software that we have (1-2 video events aren't ever a problem). Experience tells me that filmmakers will use the best resolution and newest technology they can get their hands on. The students especially go this route and I'm not sure they have a handle on all the various compression techniques (neither do I). I know the quality of equipment I have in the theatre is less than their "standards." I like being able to put the videos on a computer and run them in a playlist. Via DVDs require changing discs, cables, and aspect ratios manually through the projector menu--doing everything from a computer is whats stumping me.

This is what I work with:
VLC player as it can play VOB files transferred off a DVD
Quicktime for the videos that VLC doesn't support
5 yr old windows laptop with VGA out
VGA to DVI converter cable
DVI in on the projector (Sanyo PLCXF31N)

I tend to have an issue with .mov files. I think I've narrowed it down to some proprietary codec used by Macintosh for compression within Final Cut Pro (anyone have specifics on this or dealt with it before?). I don't have any experience with or access to this program in order to test. Also, I often have an issue due to poor processing capabilities. I ask them to bring in multiple formats a few days in advance to work out these issues, but most of the time that doesn't happen.

Any suggestions on the best file type for high quality but lower processing capabilities? Maybe, what was the standard five years ago? What would be the lowest cost professional player with support for ALL .mov files and VOB capability? Or perhaps just a professional file converter program?

I'd like to get to the point where I can upload everything onto a computer, convert files if need be, burn to a blu-ray, and then play one blu-ray disk--I'll eventually get there.

 

[NickVon]

I hear your dilema. Our Creative Arts Technology department on campus have there capstones in our theatre space. This usually involves clips of animation video trailers and full videos etc. For the sake of keeping my brain sane i request that anything being shown be in .vob as a raw file, or physically burned to a DVD. I've found that even as nice as raw avi files or divx, mpg4/2 etc can be; there are so many ways to screw up the encoding by a film makers that doesn't understand the "encoding/software" side of creating a video. Much like you can (if you try hard) screw up a .wav file with weird bit rate encoding and make a simple audio file unplayable unless you know the specifics of it's file properties.

I also use VLC as primary playback and actually have never had it have a problem playing back itunes/quicktime formats. My primary hardware for playing back any kinda of video type is our Macbook as I would think that 90% of the videos being produced are being done on the Mac platform. The plus side of our MAC is we actually have a license for Final Cut and Adobe Premier on it from the CAT department so if all else fails we can render the correct format from a raw session file.

I feel like your best bet is to always request videos burned "AS" DVD's .vob files and then purchase for 40$ a quality DVD ripping program for your space and use what ever compressed format you prefer.

 

[Nelson]

If you are screening films, do you ever have requests to show 16mm or 35mm? I'm a little surprised that you are able to have a successful forum without being able to show film. That's always been a drawback in our space. We don't have a good (high quality) way to shows films/movies. We often have requests to show feature films (and we do have a license), but without a good way to project them, we often decide to go to a real cinema instead.

To answer your question, we require that movies/clips/films are on VHS, DVD, or a VGA output from your own computer. We have no provisions to play computer files of any kind. You are welcome to hook up your own computer, but we don't have a computer of our own.

 

[museav]

I'd like to get to the point where I can upload everything onto a computer, convert files if need be, burn to a blu-ray, and then play one blu-ray disk--I'll eventually get there.

This seems to get into a messy area of making copies of what may be copyrighted content.

You can try to be proactive but I think that realistically there is a point at which instead of your trying to accommodate every possible option you dictate the acceptable formats. As you said "They have the opportunity to screen trailers, clips and short films of their projects.", if it is the opportunity is theirs then they should be willing to work with you to provide you the content in a format you can support.

I assume that you are using a VGA to DVI-A adapter into the DVI-I input on the projector. That may be a potential issue at some point as any more recent Blu-Ray player, either standalone or internal to a computer, will limit the analog outputs toonly 480i or 576i and not allow any HD resolutions for any AACS encrypted content. And starting in a little over two years the AACS protected content may completely disable any analog output.

 

[Footer]

Two ways you can deal with this. We do have dual 35mm projectors in both rooms so we prefer that. Otherwise, we want it on disc OR you bring the player and we provide an HDMI cable and 6 audio inputs.

 

[cpf]

I'll second (third?) the part about requesting people bring their own computer if it's a DIY project. I still try to load a copy onto my own laptop (a Mac) to save time, but when that doesn't work I can easily fall back to their machine (which, presumably, the video must work on).

Anything available, or possible to make available on disc is preferable. For the most part a DVD is a DVD, and for your average indie filmmaker it removes all of the complexities of encoding and formats.

 

[ruinexplorer]

I'll second (third?) the part about requesting people bring their own computer if it's a DIY project. I still try to load a copy onto my own laptop (a Mac) to save time, but when that doesn't work I can easily fall back to their machine (which, presumably, the video must work on).

And if they are bringing a Mac, make sure that they bring the appropriate adapters. It is frustrating to no end the amount of adapters needed for each generation of Apple computer. I don't understand why they don't go with standardized formats. I tried keeping up with them, but it got too expensive to have an adapter for all of their outputs.

 

[museav]

And if they are bringing a Mac, make sure that they bring the appropriate adapters. It is frustrating to no end the amount of adapters needed for each generation of Apple computer. I don't understand why they don't go with standardized formats. I tried keeping up with them, but it got too expensive to have an adapter for all of their outputs.

Agree wholeheartedly. On a recent project the Client wanted to be able to connect laptops, tablets, smartphones, etc. at the lecterns and wanted docking stations for iPods and iPads. For anything other than Apple that required two cables, one with HDMI and one with VGA and stereo audio on a 3.5mm mini, and possibly one mini-HDMI to HDMI adapter for some smartphones. For Apple products it required those same two cables along with one mini-DisplayPort adapter, one analog Apple adapter, one digital Apple adapter, one iPod/iPhone universal docking station with five different inserts, one iPad docking station and one iPad2 docking station and that was without even addressing Thunderbolt.

It's great to be innovative but being different for the sake of being different when there is no real benefit to the end users makes no sense except to the manufacturer and their associates who can then profit from selling all the related accessories and adapters one must also purchase. I've seen several examples lately of manufacturers developing products whose cost compares favorably to competing products until you account for all the peripherals needed for common use.

 

[Aerial]

I agree with pretty much everything everyone said.

For most events we don't have any problems.
I make sure that the client is bringing in a disk, or bring in their own computer for media files. Most of the time we end up using the theatre computer to run the media but theirs is present in case. I also make a point to tell the client beforehand about all the benefits of pre-screening--freshly unwrapped dvds can still freeze. I agree with the large number of MAC adapters...I leave that up to the client.

We don't have the capabilities for actual film, and that has not been a problem for us. This local group is great in working through ideas to come up with some solutions, I just wanted to ask all you guys if you had any input.

As for the ripping/reformatting/burning on to disk--it would only be for this event. The submissions are from the local owners and are often only working copies. I will make sure I ask each respective submitter's permission to go this route. For the few submitted outside professional videos, I do already run them separately off their respective disks.

It seems like for this particular event with multiple videos (6-10 is usual) from different sources DVDs are the consensus response. My issue with this may be the particular DVD player I have in switching between HD/ regular quality, and having to show the projector menu functions to the audience every time a DVD is switched in order to re-size the image to fit the screen.

I will also start looking for programs/rippers to go the VOB route as NickVon suggested. I like that idea.

 

[Nelson]

Yeah I know what you mean about the audience having to see the projector menu. I wish our projector (an NEC GT5000) had a way to switch inputs right on the front panel so we didn't have to display a menu. I suppose we could control the projector by serial (such as with an Extron-type system), but that's a little overkill just to avoid showing a menu.

 

[tk2k]

I know some of you might laugh at this, but there's a really simple solution to the projector menue issue.

I built a small shutter device that is on an electric motor. When power is applied a physical screen goes down right infront of the projector, when power is removed the screen goes back up. If you have a black starting image it's completely unnoticeable.


Granted, I run everything through Qlab so it's painfully easy to make a black background the standard.

 

[NickVon]

Instead of using a commercial Hardware DVD player, use a PC attached to you projector. Set your now second monitor resolution to the highest you video card can support and you shouldn't nee to worry about switching inputs on the projector or hardware quality settings. Now use VLC media player set it full screen on monitor 2 and youare good to go. If a DVD is lower quality then say 1080P it'll still play full screen at what ever resolution it was recorded at. A HD DVD will play at your PC's max resolution and all is good.

Some projectors (granted, usually the more expensive ones) actually have a built in "hardware" shutter that mechanically douses the output. See if your projector has this feature.

There are some Tips on the VLC forums about how to un-embed the video controls and force video to a second monitor in full screen while maintain your playback control on the computer desktop. I think this is your best and most seamless bet for this event.

 

[tk2k]

There are some Tips on the VLC forums about how to un-embed the video controls and force video to a second monitor in full screen while maintain your playback control on the computer desktop. I think this is your best and most seamless bet for this event.

Its entirely dependent on your budget, but I honestly believe Qlab is a far better option. having used VLC for several years then transitioning to Qlab, there's no way i'd ever go back.

 

[Nelson]

Our projector has an electronic dowser, but then I can't see the menu!

 

[NickVon]

Its entirely dependent on your budget, but I honestly believe Qlab is a far better option. having used VLC for several years then transitioning to Qlab, there's no way i'd ever go back.

You have a good point. However the Video portion of Qlab costs 399$ if I recall and VLC plays all media types and is free. Qlab also requires a Mac OS where as VLC is crossplatform.

 

[DuckJordan]

Vlc isn't neccesarily designed for Cued video playback though...

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[NickVon]

Vlc isn't neccesarily designed for Cued video playback though...

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Excellent point. I didn't take away from the OP that "cueing" was going on with the trailers but after going back and rereading I can see how placing a number of clips in a cue stack would be convenient. For full fledged showing of videos i don't see how having to hit "next/Track forward" ever 15min to hour and half is a hassle though

 

[DuckJordan]

no but it can seem very unprofessional, We just had Reel Dakota not to long ago and they had about 12 different formats spread across 3 different mediums. HD cam, DVD, Flash Drive. We told them from the beginning, If you want us to be able to play your video, this is how much its going to cost. Just rent the right gear. If you don't know the gear then ask the rental shop, Most aren't out to screw you.

Note: We had 30+ videos playing in 3 different spaces. At the same time throughout a weekend. We aren't that large of a facility but we handled it just fine. (Note: we have a large proscenium space[est 1900 seats], a smaller proscenium space [est 200 seats], and a black box space roughly 80' x 60')