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Flash Paper

Discussion in 'Special Effects' started by GreekTheatre, Sep 7, 2017.

  1. BillConnerFASTC

    BillConnerFASTC Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Size matters.
     
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  2. RonHebbard

    RonHebbard Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    @Van And would you mind doing it a couple of more times?
    Toodleoo!
    Ron Hebbard.
     
  3. GreekTheatre

    GreekTheatre Member

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    Thank you! ☺ I really appreciate the feedback from everyone. I have a cheap shipment of flash paper coming soon (?) and will get aa chance to test it then. Will post to this thread for alk all of you to see.
     
  4. GreekTheatre

    GreekTheatre Member

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    You're exactly right. I'm thinking about 5 feet long and scaling the height accordingly might be about a foot. Visibility will be a huge factor.
     
  5. BillConnerFASTC

    BillConnerFASTC Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Yeah, 5' could be a problem. Some (outdoor) experimenting seems it might help. I dont kno if ther is enough energy released to ignite ordinaty combustibles or not. Ive only held the small pieces in my hand and they are barely warm.
     
  6. GreekTheatre

    GreekTheatre Member

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    Hi all! Just conducted the long-awaited test. Instead of cutting the letters out of the paper, we decided to frame the letters and paper the whole backside. We may yet experiment with cutting just the letters out. Here's the video of the test. Using a phone's camera is a little inaccurate/blurry since it doesn't focus on the flames very well. The frame is about 8ftx1.5ft and I ended up using 9 sheets of flash paper that were each 50cmx20cm. Turn off your audio unless you want to hear my annoying comments.

    We're talking about using electric starters connected to several points on the paper to make the whole thing go quicker. We might attach a starter to the bottom of each letter. Any thoughts on how to improve this are much appreciated!

     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017
  7. RonHebbard

    RonHebbard Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    @GreekTheatre If you have a seriously licensed / qualified pyro person available to you, Det' cord (detonation cord) MIGHT be in her/his arsenal of tricks. Detonation cords are sold in various burn rates / propagation times and could certainly deal with your speed issues.
    It goes without saying, I'm MOST DEFINITELY NOT a pyro person and remember less than enough to be dangerous. The last time I held a pyro' license in my province was at least 40 years ago.
    Toodleoo!
    Ron Hebbard.
     
  8. BillConnerFASTC

    BillConnerFASTC Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Neat!
     
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  9. Amiers

    Amiers I wear 6 headphones. I'm that Good!!

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    That was pretty cool. Took a really long time. Very anticlimactic but for alpha testing I think it went very well.

    I would use some sort of backlights and smoke to clean up the effect.
     
  10. Les

    Les Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    FYI, you 99.9% need a permit for this :).

    For electronic ignition, give Talon Igniter Clips a try. They contain a small filament inside which can ignite Visco fuse or (probably) flash paper when 12v is applied. You just clip the jaws on to whatever you want to ignite and you're ready to go.
     
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  11. seanandkate

    seanandkate Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

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    An e-match to ignite all of the letters simultaneously from the bottom will cut the burn time by a great deal. Eliminate any flash paper that isn't needed for the letters and you won't have all that extra burning material peeling off when it ignites. And as Les said, make your AHJ your friend on this one, or hire a pyro guy to cover your bases.
     
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  12. GreekTheatre

    GreekTheatre Member

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    Just wondering for clarification...do you mean we need a permit for the flash paper or using those clips? I talked the whole project over with our HR rep and she said we didn't need to do any kind of paperwork. (This is the state of MN if that helps at all.)
     
  13. Les

    Les Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    The igniter clips are totally legal (e-matches, however, are not). It's the flash paper/open flame effect that gets in to the potential need for permitting. In most states, this would be the case unless MN is extremely lax. In fact, you most likely need a licensed pyrotechnician in addition to the permit, as having one doesn't necessarily satisfy the other. I would contact the AHJ - even though I know that's a can of worms akin to asking the barber if you need a haircut. But better to be safe than sorry.

    If it's any help to you, this should fall under NFPA 1126. If I have time, I can do a little cursory research. But inquiring with the AHJ is what I would do in either event.

    Edit #1: Here's a little light reading: https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/sfm/pr.../Fireworks/FireworksGuidelinesRevised2011.pdf

    Pages 5 and 6 get in to indoor displays. I'm sure there is much more relevant information — I've only begun skimming it myself.

    Edit #2: There is an exception on Page 7 involving theatrical flash paper effects. However, the document urges organizations to contact the AHJ to ensure that the exception applies to them. With the amount you're planning to use, I certainly would recommend that.

    I hope this is helpful. I'd dig deeper, but I actually just got home from shooting fireworks at Four Seasons and still have a layer of black powder coating my clothes, arms, and face :).
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
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  14. RonHebbard

    RonHebbard Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    @Les Simply reading through all of that was quite the slog. Does each state write something like that from scratch or do they borrow from one another and customize to taste? I did note the paragraph outlining inter-state boundaries and restrictions. After having invested about an hour reading what you've provided, I can't help but wonder how anyone could / would suggest there was no need of any "paper work". Sound's like a quick cop-out on someone's part to me.
    Very impressive, comprehensive, thorough, 'I' dotting and 'T' crossing.
    Toodleoo!
    Ron Hebbard.
     
  15. Les

    Les Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I'm impressed that you read through it - I lost interest after page 7! But then again, I've had my fill of these kinds of documents as a result of my career and educational choices... ;).

    I think most of this stuff is adapted from the NFPA books. They'll change the formatting and other minor things, but mostly it's all the same information. For example, I recently wrote an Emergency Response Plan for my facility. The templates are available online, just fill in the blanks!

    The exception of course being states that really go all out (cough California cough). There probably is also some adopting/cooperation among states as well - at least that would be the smart thing: Looking at who is 'doing it right' and try to emulate them.

    Ha! I agree. One thing I have learned from doing pyro, Class IV lasers, OSHA, etc... There is always paperwork if you look hard enough. "Nope, there's no paperwork" should definitely be in the List of Big Lies. Right along side "yes I tested it before we flew it out", "it's basically just a lights up/lights down kind of show", "we only need a couple of mics" or "we'll be out by 10pm".
     
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  16. GreekTheatre

    GreekTheatre Member

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    Thank you-I really appreciate your work on this!
     
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  17. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    Unless your HR rep is trained on fire and pyro safety, or is your fire marshal their "blessing" means very little. As you are associated with the state, it is very likely that your venue has a fire marshal who is likely your AHJ. In this day and age, most AHJs want/need to approve of lighting candles or cigarettes on stage. An effect like this is way beyond simple "open flames." Most states require a licensed shooter for an effect like this, and at this point I think you need to consult a local professional.

    As it stands, this thread is walking the fine line of what we allow on CB, so I urge everyone involved to consider the laws regarding pyro and the CB rules regarding pyro as this thread continues.
     
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