Flying a heavy sign......advice needed

[Wheezy]

I have been tasked with flying a Corny Collins sign for Hairspray. The theatre has one manual fly system sharing the load between both sides of the stage. The sign weighs between 150 and 200 pounds, and is 8x8 (roughly) luan with 1/2 inch ply frame around it. There is no arbor or counter weight installed in this rig. A test with one person on each rope tells me this isn't the method I would recommend to the Director.

I only got involved with this particular theatre last year, and they said they've flown heavier items in the past using two people per rope. I'm not happy with that, the risk of an uncontrolled drop is too much for my comfort.

So, how would you guys handle the situation? I have considered reconstructing the sign from lighter materials (foam board and lighter wood frame), using sandbags as counterweights, converting the sign to a rolling flat (Director does not like that idea at all), or downsize the existing sign to save weight.

 

[TDN]

Others will chime in with the same. Don't. Nothing about what you are describing sounds safe. 200 lbs is a lot of weight. It does not sound like there is any way to do it safely with the options you have outlined above. Go with your gut, and say no. Not with the options you have available.

Get a rigger in and see what they suggest. Or switch to a cardboard sign. Or use a projector. Even your foam board and lighter wood frame sounds terrifying if dropped.

You may have an uphill battle if they have done bigger, heavier, stupider things in the past and gotten away with it, but that does not make it a good idea.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Well that's terrifying.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Skervald]

Agreed. Your gut is right. Don't do it. Some of the toughest battles I've had to fight start with people saying things like, "but we've always..." or "we've done it before..." This is the collaborative part of theater and the bit that can be the most difficult. Most likely, your director has been seeing that sign fly in his/her minds eye for months. It's going to be tough to change that vision but stay strong. I tend to use the what if it was your child standing under it argument. Explain that it's luck that has kept them from experiencing a disaster so far and that lives are at stake. Projection is a good idea if you have the capability and rolling it on is probably not nearly as bad as the director thinks it would be. I've worked in plenty of spaces where flying is impossible or dangerous. With a little practice, rolling set pieces on can be as smooth, fast, and dramatic as flying.

Best of luck!

 

[Wheezy]

I tend to use the what if it was your child standing under it argument.
Best of luck!

I agree totally. And, I failed to mention one thing. It IS my child standing under it, along with about 60 of his (and my) closest friends.

 

[Skervald]

Well, there you go. I'd say you've got your argument pretty well sewn up. Death would really put a damper on the experience for everyone.

As a side note, welcome to Control Booth! You came to the right place for support on these things. You'll find this place an excellent resource. When you have a chance, post an introduction in the new member thread.

 

[DRU]

The theatre has one manual fly system sharing the load between both sides of the stage.

This sounds dangerous. From your description, I envision a single batten with one set of lift lines going SR and another set going SL and controlled by two people, one on each side of the stage. Is that how it's set up?

I have been tasked with flying a Corny Collins sign for Hairspray.

Are you the technical director, or are you a carpenter assigned to figure out how to fly it?

I'm not happy with that, the risk of an uncontrolled drop is too much for my comfort.

If you have been assigned to hang this item, and you don't feel it would be safe to hang it as they request, don't hang it. Have it come in on a wagon. Don't do anything you're uncomfortable with.

 

[Wheezy]

Well, there you go. I'd say you've got your argument pretty well sewn up. Death would really put a damper on the experience for everyone.

As a side note, welcome to Control Booth! You came to the right place for support on these things. You'll find this place an excellent resource. When you have a chance, post an introduction in the new member thread.

Thanks, Skervald. I had been lurking for awhile, finally decided to join in.

This sounds dangerous. From your description, I envision a single batten with one set of lift lines going SR and another set going SL and controlled by two people, one on each side of the stage. Is that how it's set up?

That's exactly right. The lines are poly rope.

Are you the technical director, or are you a carpenter assigned to figure out how to fly it?

That is one problem I have noticed with this particular theater. There is no direct responsibility assignments. The only direct leader is the Director. I plan to have a conversation with him for that very concern with future shows. In this particular scenario, though, I would be the carpenter.

If you have been assigned to hang this item, and you don't feel it would be safe to hang it as they request, don't hang it. Have it come in on a wagon. Don't do anything you're uncomfortable with.

My thought exactly from the OP. I even completed a design and bill of materials for the wagon. He is rather insistent that it fly. I have a little work ahead of me to convince him of the danger.

 

[josh88]

And the argument they'll use of "we've flown heavier stuff in the past" is even scarier. oof. If you say you want a rigger to come in or to change the design to remove flying and he still is insistent, just show him this thread.

 

[Footer]

Whats up with the lines going up at an angle off the "batten"? Is there no loft blocks, just head blocks here?

If it was a standard hemp system I would say just throw some sandbags on and go. However, it doesn't appear that is the case here. Looks like a very poorly home built system. Run away. Put the sign on casters and be done with it. Then, get that rigging inspected. Do you have more pictures of what the actual rigging looking like?

There is really no reason that lines should not be either running perfectly vertically or perfectly horizontal traditional theater rigging.... at least at this level.

 

[Wheezy]

Whats up with the lines going up at an angle off the "batten"? Is there no loft blocks, just head blocks here?

If it was a standard hemp system I would say just throw some sandbags on and go. However, it doesn't appear that is the case here. Looks like a very poorly home built system. Run away. Put the sign on casters and be done with it. Then, get that rigging inspected. Do you have more pictures of what the actual rigging looking like?

There is really no reason that lines should not be either running perfectly vertically or perfectly horizontal traditional theater rigging.... at least at this level.

Good catch, and I have shaken my head on that as well. The blocks appear to be 3 inches attached to chain, they appear from the stage to be professionally attached to pipe, but the job ended there. The angle is due to the location of the pipes overhead. I hung the sign to take the pic for the Director, then struck it backstage. The 'batten', I found out, is a 2 inch sch 40 PVC pipe. It's like someone put this up for a temp rig (maybe a chandelier for a scene), then left it up. Now, everyone thinks it's a proper rig. No way I will fly anything more than Styrofoam with this setup.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

This just keeps getting worse and more scary. From what you've said, I wouldn't want anyone under this, let alone a member of my family.

 

[Wheezy]

Thanks, everyone, for the quick response. I will convince him it needs to go on the wagon.

 

[RonHebbard]

Thanks, everyone, for the quick response. I will convince him it needs to go on the wagon.

Smart decision Sir! This whole thread is a text book check list of HOW NOT TO DO IT.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[egilson1]

PVC pipe? Cut it down, cut it up, and then Run far far away. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.00. Just run.

And I am completely serious. Do not let this batten stay in the space so that some other "less than knowledgable" person try's to use it after you walk away from the space.

 

[What Rigger?]

PVC pipe? Cut it down, cut it up, and then Run far far away. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.00. Just run.

And I am completely serious. Do not let this batten stay in the space so that some other "less than knowledgable" person try's to use it after you walk away from the space.

Yes! This, and every other thing/person telling you "no" about this is right. Nothing at all is good, safe, or right about this. Poly rope? Throw that in the trash- that's not even good truck rope, and not designed or warranted for overhead lifting of any thing. Let us know how we can continue to help.

 

[Evans Poulos]

^. Guerrilla safety. Maybe not great for job security. And it might've sounded facetious but printing out this thread and showing it to the facility is actually probably a good idea. In either case take some pictures and store this someplace safe so that you're prepared in the case of the eventual litigation. You may be called to testify for either side.

 

[Wheezy]

Thanks again everyone. The sign is now on a wagon!

Even better, I completely removed the pipe and rope. He took it much better than I expected.

 

[RonHebbard]

Thanks again everyone. The sign is now on a wagon!

Even better, I completely removed the pipe and rope. He took it much better than I expected.

Thanks for getting back to us. I know I, for one, will sleep better tonight.
All the best to you.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.