Fogger as Disinfectant

setbldr

Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Location
Alexandria, VA
My school operations team is asking me if my foggers can be used to disinfect furniture for Covid19 germs, instead of wiping them down. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I think also, that we'd probably be willing to permenently disable the fogger for future stage fogging purposes in order to be able to serve this purpose also.
 

JohnD

Well-Known Member
Fight Leukemia
Joined
Jan 11, 2012
Location
north central OK
I can't seem to find it now, but there was another post about disinfectant use of foggers posted somewhere here. I did find this one:
 
  • Like
Reactions: RonHebbard

rsmentele

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Fight Leukemia
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Location
Madison, WI
Im not so sure that foggers have been approved for use in US yet. I've seen foreign approvals, but not US.

Also, doesn't list anti-viral capabilities; only anti-bacterial
 

RonHebbard

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2004
Location
Waterdown, ON, CA
Im not so sure that foggers have been approved for use in US yet. I've seen foreign approvals, but not US.

Also, doesn't list anti-viral capabilities; only anti-bacterial
Quoting from the link in post #3: "AG800 can kill most fungi, germs, virus, dust mites and get rid of bad odors effectively. "
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
  • Like
Reactions: JohnD

MNicolai

Well-Known Member
Fight Leukemia
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Location
Sarasota, FL
Quoting from the link in post #3: "AG800 can kill most fungi, germs, virus, dust mites and get rid of bad odors effectively. "
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
Think I'll let someone else be the guinea pig on that. All of their test reports are fungi or bacteria; nothing viral. Even then, only a small handful of tests made. The application they're showing is also a very confined car with a high density. There's no reason to believe it would be effective in a large scale theater where you would be unable to achieve much density at all.

Very little empirical evidence to support their claims and prove this is anything more than snake glycol.

Also worth nothing their foreign presence. Much of their advertising doesn't fall under the FDA regs, and where they are advertising within the US such as on the AirGuard US page on Facebook you can see they're not making any claims it is effective against viruses and only refer to it as an antibacterial solution.

From Creative Stage Lighting's Website -- note they are explicitly saying it is not effective against COVID19:

1589381964524.png
 

JimOC_1

Active Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2014
Location
Maryland
fwiw, the foggers we use at work are great on microbes, viruses, I suppose insects. Sort of like drinking bleach, but for the lungs. The containment and safety protocols are extensive. The rooms we use them in have dedicated air handlers. So sealing off the area has meaning, and they do get sealed off. Our crews are good, but that task is contracted out to folk who do it for a living, with one of our folks on-hand at all times.
 

BillConnerFASTC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Location
Clayton NY 13624
Someone asks on NFPA Xchange: "When you are fogging disinfectant against Coronavirus in a restaurant kitchen, do you need to turn off the stove pilots."

I have not seen clear and from good sources infromation on disinfectant fogging and being effective against COVID-19 (which I learned today is COronaVIrusDisease2019...maybe you all knew)
 
  • Love
Reactions: RonHebbard

JimOC_1

Active Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2014
Location
Maryland
I’ve no training or expertise regarding disinfection by fogging.
A few questions do come to mind.
Is it true that Hydrogen Peroxide and Perchloric Acid peracetic acid are the systems used by pharmaceutical companies?
Is it true that only Hydrogen Peroxide leaves no residue? (restaurants correct?)
Is it true Perchloric Acid peracetic acid based systems are hell on electrical/electronics?
Maybe the folks at SteraMist are worth talking to.


I keep thinking about a recent answer to a rigging question. If you need to ask, you need a pro. This may be in the same category.
 
Last edited:

TimMc

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
I’ve no training or expertise regarding disinfection by fogging.
A few questions do come to mind.
Is it true that Hydrogen Peroxide and Perchloric Acid peracetic acid are the systems used by pharmaceutical companies?
Is it true that only Hydrogen Peroxide leaves no residue? (restaurants correct?)
Is it true Perchloric Acid peracetic acid based systems are hell on electrical/electronics?
Maybe the folks at SteraMist are worth talking to.


I keep thinking about a recent answer to a rigging question. If you need to ask, you need a pro. This may be in the same category.
Peroxide is an oxidizer and in sufficient concentration and wet time, can provide a level of medical sterilization. If you're being pressured to provide this level of 'clean' you're in for a long process to deliver the unattainable-in-a-public-facility, probably, and will find that attempting this level of sterile/sanitary/clean on a routine basis can potentially damage stuff. Likewise, peracetic acid is a form of the acid in vinegar. Yes, it's corrosive. Spraying it on intercom belt packs, headsets, and body pack transmitters is a bad idea.

Most finishes, screen printed legends and layouts on equipment can be damaged by a surprising number of common cleaners, solvents and sanitizers. See below for guidance received from various manufactures. If anyone has received cleaning guidance that is not on the list, please submit it (info on page) for inclusions.

https://practicalshowtechcom.squarespace.com/covid-19 I suggest watching the saved webinar this came from. While broadcast/corp A2-centric, there is a bunch of useful info.

Of particular interest to theatre A2s... some tiny mics (DPA?) cannot tolerate alcohol or other astringent cleaners as it will dry out the plasticizer in the cable jacket.

Now the "I'm not a doctor, infection control specialist, don't play one on TV, etc".... The reason handwashing is effective - soap breaks down the lipid layer of the coronavirus and it comes apart, mechanically. For things that can tolerate direct contact, dishwashing detergent in a normal concentration *may* be enough for some things. 70% isopropyl is effective but will damage some surfaces, markings and cords. Double-quarternary ammonium disinfectants are effective as are phenyl phenol disinfectants. The CDC has a list on their website (I'm happily condensing) of products, the wet time required and other considerations. The double-quat ammonium has potential because you can dilute a concentrate and use test strips to show PPM, use a known wet time, and no offensive odor after it dries. Peroxide in a 6-7% solution will leave no residue other than any material it didn't dissolve, same with isopropyl. I'm not saying any of these will provide any specific level of disinfection, that information exists from disinfectant manufacturers and the CDC, and I'm not making a judgment about what level of sterile/sanitary/clean is necessary or appropriate for any specific situation.
 

techieman33

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Location
topeka, ks
We had the lower level of our building treated with SteraMist as part of a mold remediation plan. I never heard actual prices because we weren't the ones paying the bills on it. But was told the machine itself was over $10k and the cost of the chemical used to treat the maybe 20k square feet with 10-12ft ceilings was into the thousands of dollars. That's not including whatever it cost to actually have them apply it. And the area had to be completely clear of people for about half an hour after they were done spraying it. Not the end of the world for a one time use. But for daily use the costs could get out of control quickly. That's of course if you can even get the product. I'm sure it's in incredibly high demand right now. If you want to pursue it though I would start by talking with companies local to you that deal with mold, fire, and flood damage.
 

Gobokat

Active Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2015
Location
Chicago
Hey gang,
While I am not a doctor, and have never played one on TV let me just point out a couple things about the technologies that we're talking about:
1) UV-C light in any form damages organic material. That's why it's a great disinfectant in a closed environment, you do not want to use this in an environment where bare skin or direct viewing happens.
2) foggers - from what I know heating disinfectants breaks down the disinfecting molecule. So what I suspect is these examples of "foggers" are more akin to the agricultural foggers I used as a young farm hand which are actually atomizers (think DF-50) and not vaporizers (think every other non-cracked oil hazer/fogger on the market.)

Please, when evaluating these technologies read the MSDS and white papers. When you're playing with public health you really don't want to rely on "removes most" or "99%". If we're (public venues) responsible for any corona bounce back we can kiss our audiences good bye for a lot longer.
 

JohnD

Well-Known Member
Fight Leukemia
Joined
Jan 11, 2012
Location
north central OK
There is a country music festival scheduled for early July in Wisconsin.
PSW Thread.
Here is their Safety Plan
Notice point # 20. "Use fogging sanitizer to sanitize large areas such as shower buildings, bathrooms, bar and backstage based on Health Department recommendations"

So, I wonder what knowledge the Health Department staff will have about this? Are there any tested and proven fogging sanitizers available in the US yet?

Oh yeah, the safety plan (at least to me) sure has a lot of wiggle room, like they were just quickly checking off bullet points. One example "We will provide a mask for staff and volunteers".
 
  • Sad
Reactions: RonHebbard

rsmentele

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Fight Leukemia
Joined
Apr 6, 2010
Location
Madison, WI
Yea, it's also Wisconsin.... When our supreme court rescinded the governor's stay-at-home orders, all the rules for planned reopening went out the window.... It's a bit like the wild west here. I would not use any 'safety plans' created in this state as a model for anyone else's....
 

BillConnerFASTC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Location
Clayton NY 13624
Reopening seems to be more about not overwhelming the medical system and satisfying people, and less about deaths from the virus.

PS I am reading an increasing number of articles and reports on research that show the virus on surfaces is a a low risk. The fact that it may survive on some surfaces up to daysis irrelevant to transmission - which seems to be primarily germs from your respiratory tract to another's respiratory tract through the air. Coupled with the increasing likelihood that you may be contagious but asymptomatic for days or even the entire course of your infection - and never know you were infected - makes gatherings like this very risky. But - if we can keep the medical system from being overwhelmed, at least you can be treated.
 
Last edited: