Good Mic for Reed Instruments in Musical

[hcproductions]

Hey all,

So I am getting ready to set up for a musical. The band is going to have a guitar, bass guitar, drum kit, keyboard, and a couple of reed instruments. I was thinking of taking a di box to the guitars and keyboard, but I was wondering about the reed instruments. I may mic up the drums using a drum mic kit, the brand I can't remember, but is it ok to just use sm58s for the reed instruments? Unfortunately, the budget doesn't allow for much flexibility, but I just wanted to make sure it would work ok.

 

[NickVon]

Hey all,

So I am getting ready to set up for a musical. The band is going to have a guitar, bass guitar, drum kit, keyboard, and a couple of reed instruments. I was thinking of taking a di box to the guitars and keyboard, but I was wondering about the reed instruments. I may mic up the drums using a drum mic kit, the brand I can't remember, but is it ok to just use sm58s for the reed instruments? Unfortunately, the budget doesn't allow for much flexibility, but I just wanted to make sure it would work ok.

Others will be better informed and have more history to fall back on. For the limited amount of band mic'ing i do. I've put small Diaphram condesnors on strings and Reeds (oboe/Basson/EH). Saxaphones and such i think i'd like condensers as well, but maybe a SM57-SM58 would be a viable alternative.

I have a couple for SM94's that I use. Have a reasonalbe sound, good durabitly and a effective price point.

 

[rwhealey]

Sure, it'll work, but I find that mics with a "vocal presence bump" like the SM58 can be ear-splitting on reed instruments. You should be OK with some EQ.

Last week I used an EV 635 omni on a saxophone for a loud rock stage - it worked great! The sax was really loud to start with plus the player was good about staying on the mic, so I had no feedback issues, even with the sax in the monitors.

 

[GoldPhoenix]

What show is it? That can have make a huge difference in what you use for microphones and the whole sound design, just as it does with set and light design. What else do you have for a board and other sound equipment, including mic's?

using a Di on the guitar is frowned upon by many in the sound world. with no other choice or unless if you need the sound of a Di'ed guitar it will def work and work well but an SM57 on a guitar cab (preferably a tube amp) sounds much more full and professional.

Also, how many woodwinds are you trying to mic? and with how many sm57's? From my time mic'ing woodwinds I have only be disappointed with using condenser mics on woodwinds. I try to use ribbon mic's on woodwinds and brass. You may need an omi-directional area mic if you have to mic a large number of woodwinds and do not have the equipment, or time to mic each one individually.

Check this comparison out here.

and also check the section about "Mixing techniques" and "the studio" here. Just download the pdf.

I'm looking forward to seeing more info about what you have available.

Good luck,
~Allan

 

[Dondaley]

I certainly see no reason why a basic SM57 or 58 would be wrong. They would certainly work. I imagine that depending on how much your reed players play out professionally they might even have their own instrument mics. You might be able to mic your saxes, clarinets et al. with small lavalier type mics. However, to a degree the musicians might just expect nothing more than an SM57-58 sort of microphone.

 

[bishopthomas]

Yep, if SM58's are what you have they'll do just fine. When in doubt (and working with professional musicians) ask them what is the best mic placement. They'll be much more familiar with the sound of the instrument and the best place to get the proper tone.

By the way, you'll want to DI the keys, but not necessarily the guitars (if we're talking about electric guitars). Acoustics should be DI'd, but you'll probably get better results from miking the guitar amps. The amplifier/speaker is as much a part of the sound of the instrument as the guitar itself. Of course, amp simulators are a different story...

 

[soundlight]

I like to use a Beta 57 for reed instruments, especially multi-instrumentalists. If the Beta 57 is out of the budget (they can be had for about $110 brand new if I remember right), an SM57 will do. I have also used a small diaphragm condenser (SM94 or similar) depending on the sound required and the instruments involved (wind players are often multi-instrumentalists for a show, so you have to decide what mic works best for the mix of stuff they'll be playing).

And I will add my vote in to the mic the guitar amp if it's an electric guitar but DI it if it's an acoustic with a pickup. Bass you're probably fine with a DI either way, and definitely DI your keyboards as you mentioned.

EDIT: I will add that the wind players that I mic'd for my most recent endeavor in micing instruments (a full-size musical with a 15 person pit including 5 wind multi-instrumentalists) were able to keep the sweet spot of each of their instruments in the same place, so I only had to use one Beta 57 or SM57 for each player, except for the players who had flutes; I used a small diaphragm condenser up over their shoulder for those to keep the mic stand out of the way.

Also remember that when looking at resources, studio and live sound are very different animals in this case. I would take an entirely different approach to recording an instrument when it was the only instrument in a room and there were no feedback issues; this is live sound and you often have to do things a bit differently when it comes to winds.

 

[Eboy87]

As the saying goes: "Throw a '57 on it." A '58 will work, but you'll have to chop it up with the EQ to get rid of that awful bump at 2kish. Reeds are tricky. I'm actually not a fan of any condenser on reeds unless it's absolutely necessary. I had one clarinet player bring an AKG D12 for his part. Mic position was about halfway down the tube, a handful of inches to the player's left. It sounded wonderful. Not sure what your mic kit is, but my recommendations would be Audix D4, D6, Sennheiser 421, or the good ol' 57 (with a windscreen preferably). Since then, I find it gets a smoother sound without the harshness with less EQ. If you're going to use condenser, I suggest placing it above the player's shoulder, whichever side they're more comfortable with, just above head height, and use an SDC like an SM81, Oktava MK012, MXL 991. Of course, if it's a loud band, you may need to mic closer. The over the shoulder look will also give a smoother sound.

This photo shows what I'm talking about over the shoulder. The mic is an Oktava, and the reed players where the two chairs under it. One mic for the pair. Behind them were two sax players (the trombone got his own space on the very tight riser, preventing the ensuing comedy), a drum kit, guitar, and bass. None of them bled through much.

And I will add my vote in to the mic the guitar amp if it's an electric guitar but DI it if it's an acoustic with a pickup. Bass you're probably fine with a DI either way, and definitely DI your keyboards as you mentioned.

+1

How big is your space? Drums may get away with an overhead and a kick mic.

 

[Blacksheep0317]

SM-58's will work for just about anything if you really need them to.

SM-57's will work better for anything non vocal.

Personal preferences..
Drums;
Beta-52 on kick, and in your case some lower price condenser overheads (senn 614's perhaps) and maybe a third for the hat. If you really really need it.

Keys;
Good call on the DI. Keep it simple. A good whirlwind IMP is always hiding in my bag somewhere. Its the SM-58 of of the DI world.

Guitars;
Never had good luck using a DI on a guitar. Atleast not alone. (expansion at a later date) Senn 609 is my preference most of the time, but a SM-57 is the norm on the cab. Straight on just off center of a speaker.

Horns & reeds;
Again, more SM-57s all around if your want simple.
As a reed player myself, my choices are a bit more varied.
Bari sax, tenor sax, clarinet, trombone, and other warmer ones- Senn 421
Trumpet, alto sax, soprano sax, and other brighter ones- SM-57
Flute, piccialo, pennywhistle, and other breathy ones- SM-58 with a windscreen


My choices range alot depending on alot of factors, but that is a fairly standard starting off point across the board for a semi cost conscious person.

 

[hcproductions]

Wow, thanks for all the responses guys.

I'm definitely going to go with micing up the guitars, and keep the di box for the keyboard.

I'm probably going to see if I can borrow a few SM-57s from somewhere. Apparently there's another theatre with a decent sound inventory I can nab from.

I'm not sure yet of what speakers we will be using, but the board is a Mackie 1604-VLZ pro. Should be able to get what we need done.

The space is a smaller blackbox theatre, I can't remember the exact specifications, but I'm thinking 50x50ish? The thing is, they would like to put the band behind the audience. I'd like to mic as much as I could to prevent some instruments being heard in front and then loud drums behind. Might be a little disorienting.

Thanks again for all the responses, this is great information.