Guest-Proof New System

[museav]

We were under the impression that a box similar to our old one was in the sound schedule, and our principal says we are getting one, but the final walk through is on Friday, and we have had no word yet whether or not we are for sure getting one. To top it off, we have a church that has service in our auditorium every Sunday, and they have demonstrated to us that they do not know how to run sound. We've come back on Mondays to seeing all of the mic inputs and the main out on the mixer we used to have backstage maxed out, along with other things. This is why we don't want them anywhere near our booth. We are looking for more of a temporary solution than a permanent one at this point.

Thanks for the clarifications. It should be possible to determine what you were supposed to get and hopefully the related information includes more than just an equipment list, although even that may give some indication. If it does appear that something was to be provided or accommodations made in the system then it sounds like this is too important an issue to accept it not being provided. In any case, knowing what was to be provided or if any provisions were made seems to potentially be a major factor in determining not just what solutions are possible and practical but also how temporary or permanent a solution may actually be required.

One thing to keep in mind is that if you start modifying a newly installed system that may be interpreted as not only accepting the work but it may also release the installer from some obligations, particularly in relation to any system warranty.

Perhaps critical to any discussion is knowing what the church and other similar users need. Is it a couple of mics and a CD player or is support for a full praise band with monitors? Is it practical for them to mix from the stage or might that actually be contributing to some of the problems you've encountered? Is a separate mixer with a portable snake practical or are they going to want to use floor box inputs, etc. that are hardwired to the house system? Can you limit access to the booth and new console and they still be able to turn the system on and off?

From a technical perspective, are there inputs to a system processor or similar other than through the new mixer? If not, is it feasible to leave the new mixer on and a couple of channels up or to train users to recall a scene on the new console (or can you maybe trigger that externally)?

I'm not expecting answers to all the questions noted, just trying to provide some general input that might trigger some ideas or responses.

 

[avare]

We were under the impression that a box similar to our old one was in the sound schedule, and our principal says we are getting one, but the final walk through is on Friday, and we have had no word yet whether or not we are for sure getting one.

Specific models please!

To top it off, we have a church that has service in our auditorium every Sunday, and they have demonstrated to us that they do not know how to run sound. We've come back on Mondays to seeing all of the mic inputs and the main out on the mixer we used to have backstage maxed out, along with other things. This is why we don't want them anywhere near our booth. We are looking for more of a temporary solution than a permanent one at this point.

Something is not making sense. Every system that I have seen would feedback well before microphone inputs and the output were at maximum. What are the "other things"? Have you or anyone else fromthe school attended the services to see how the system is being used?

I am reading a lot of conjecture.

Andre

 

[Fraghawk]

The other things:
Missing mics
Missing cables
Missing tools
Missing walkie talkie
Missing phone charger
I suspect we have lost or have had stolen over 500$ worth of stuff. I suspect they are the culprits because we put our stuff up every Friday and we come back on Monday to missing things. The most egregious example is the walkie talkie. I put it in the booth, out of sight, where we normally keep it, for communication between the catwalks and the booth, and when I come back that next week its gone.
When I say our stuff was maxed out, I meant that they would turn up the main out on the mixer up and the mic channels on the board (which we does not work with the on stage inputs as we told them) as high as possible and completely disregard the mixer mic inputs as they would still be at about 20-30%.

What do you mean specific models? What we used to have or what we currently are using? Between set design for UIL and having our light tech drop out of school, I've been too busy to look at our new stuff besides the board, which is a Soundcraft Si Compact 24 channel. Sorry if I'm not clear enough.

 

[Sayen]

I may have missed it, but couldn't you just easily swap the two boards, and lock up the nice console in a different location when not in use?

When outside groups use the facility, do you have any sort of rental contract? I do a walk through at the school with clients, noting condition, and then at the close of an event we do another walkthrough. The contract holds outside groups liable for any damages.

You might also consider a technical rider listing available equipment. Mine specifies the console, number and type of mics, and available cables. Most of my good stuff is locked away, although at my discretion we'll certainly use it for non-school groups, but they know coming in what they can and cannot use. They also must hire at least myself (teacher/lead tech) and two students to operate the equipment, so we keep close tabs on everything.

 

[techiegirl23]

At my school, we have board A and B the A board( new and touch screen) me bulit a locking cover for it and we have both of them in the booth togethier, and when an extra group needs help, we send in the TD or the Senior Techie

 

[Fraghawk]

I may have missed it, but couldn't you just easily swap the two boards, and lock up the nice console in a different location when not in use?

When outside groups use the facility, do you have any sort of rental contract? I do a walk through at the school with clients, noting condition, and then at the close of an event we do another walkthrough. The contract holds outside groups liable for any damages.

You might also consider a technical rider listing available equipment. Mine specifies the console, number and type of mics, and available cables. Most of my good stuff is locked away, although at my discretion we'll certainly use it for non-school groups, but they know coming in what they can and cannot use. They also must hire at least myself (teacher/lead tech) and two students to operate the equipment, so we keep close tabs on everything.

We were thinking about that, but we don't want to give them the chance to blow out the amps or ruin our new speakers.

 

[len]

I'm no sound guy, but a few thots:

1. It seems like whenever one is a renter or a rentee/landlord, one assumes the possibility of equipment damage. My tenants, as careful as they are, still cause some damage every once in a while. Part of the game. So your prices need to reflect some replacement reserves so you have the cash to fix things quickly if need be.
2. You should also have wording in your contract about client damage. Do a walk through with them before and after, noting damage. Car rental places do it, so should you. They should be able to provide liability insurance.
3. If the sound system is so new, you might just require them to pay for your staff to supervise the equipment while they are there.
4. Maybe drop some compression into the system, if you don't already have it.

 

[Aman121]

We were thinking about that, but we don't want to give them the chance to blow out the amps or ruin our new speakers.

In a properly designed system with correctly configured limiters or DSP, this wont be a problem. Instead of going to great lengths to idiot proof the system, why not make an effort to educate the idiots, so it isn't a problem in the future. Attend one or two services, educate whoever is running sound for the church on how to use the system, and keep whatever extraneous equipment they don't need locked up. You seem to be under the impression that the church people are going around maliciously wrecking your sound system, when in all likelihood they simply don't know how to set it up. Once they are trained in operation of the equipment, the problems will go away. I assume you are a student at this school, you have to remind yourself that the theater isnt your personal kingdom, you have to try and be accommodating to other users instead of trying to make it harder for them to utilize the equipment.

 

[museav]

2. You should also have wording in your contract about client damage. Do a walk through with them before and after, noting damage. Car rental places do it, so should you. They should be able to provide liability insurance.

Car rentals may have a visual check for physical damage but that inspection does not address hidden damage or the engine, drivetrain, brakes, etc., in fact I've had many inspections that don't even check lights, wipers, turn signals and so on. The problem is that anything beyond that which can be readily viusally confirmed by typical person is likely going to be more challenging to prove being directly related to any particular use. And even if they have liability insurance their insurer may put up a fight that requires you to 'prove' any damage being a direct result of their actions, which in many cases can be difficult to do.

3. If the sound system is so new, you might just require them to pay for your staff to supervise the equipment while they are there.

Of course the other side may be that if the sound system is new and this was a known issue then why was it not addressed and why should the clients pay for that? The renters' view may be that you deleted something they had and used and rather than being required to pay more they should be paying less. If you feel you need to have staff present to protect your investment then maybe it should be at your expense.

4. Maybe drop some compression into the system, if you don't already have it.

If you mean limiting or comp/limiting rather than compression then perhaps not a bad idea. Ideally a new speaker system would already be protected but as you assess how to address the simple operation you may want to consider if there is a good place to insert some additional limiting.

 

[TimmyP1955]

If you want to use two consoles, build a passive summing box (Why Not Wye?) or if you have a capable system processor, you can use an extra input (or pair) on same.

We require that folks hire one of our techs. $20 hr, four hour minimum (if we had one who lived in town, we might be able to waive the minimum).

If it's a closed booth, tear out the window(s).